Sarah and JVL talk about the DeSantis launch, his January 6 pardon weasel words, and the norming of soft-authoritarianism. To get the full episode—and The Secret Podcast every week—join Bulwark+. Go to: https://thesecretpodcast.thebulwark.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's all about Ron DeSantis and his upcoming announcement on Twitter Spaces tonight. What does the gang think of the move to launch his campaign with Elon Musk? Plus, a riff on Tim Scott's inconsequential run for president and a rant on Nate Silver's Never Trumper critiques. And tune in tonight on YouTube to watch all your favorite Bulwark personalities react to DeSantis' announcement live! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPz-zmDUiuw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah and JVL are joined by Molly Jong-Fast as part of The Bulwark's live event in NYC! Tune in to hear several "Are we going to fight?" moments while discussing Donald Trump's continuous popularity with Republicans, the cruelty of the latest allegations against Rudy Giuliani, and basically ever current and potential 2024 presidential contender. It's a wild show that you won't want to miss! Subscribe to The Next Level's YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_lAiayRbLUnTfPebOw-44g Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sarah, Tim and JVL went live yesterday during their recording to talk Dem wins in traditionally Republican cities, DeSantis' Iowa trip and his allied PAC walking back criticism of Trump, and the idea that Mike Pence might actually jump into the 2024 race. Plus, the gang takes questions from the audience! The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast. Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18. For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Director, writer and producer David Mandel (Veep, Seinfeld) sits down with Tim to discuss his new HBO miniseries White House Plumbers and his fascination with the behind the scenes of Washington. SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Next week's TNL will be streamed LIVE on YouTube on The Bulwark's main channel. Tune in May 17th at 3 pm EST to watch Tim, Sarah, and JVL record in the same room for the first time in ages! The chat will be open to get ready to ask our hosts your burning questions! Join here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVoAmys1Lg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices