Plants Always Win

This versus episode is a battle of the native wildflowers. Sean leads with penstemon, also known as hairy beardtongue, a charmingly fairytale-looking native perennial genus with species that grow across North America. Points in this plant’s favour: it has few pests and diseases, pollinators love it, and Sean lets us in on the secret to increased blossoms. Also: tube-shaped flowers = hummingbirds and adorably wiggling bee butts. Not to be outdone, Erin pushes back with common milkweed Asclepias syriaca, another native perennial that’s important for pollinators and a range of specialist insects, including monarch butterflies. Its sweet-smelling ball-shaped flower clusters seem engineered for human appeal, but this plant’s genes are wild and free. Erin explains what kind of garden space you need to grow them and addresses some common fears about the toxins in milkweed’s sap. And then both our hosts get into The Milkweed Controversy.Tangents this week include rhizomes, informational websites with no dates on them, the ethics of merch, and the menace of black swallow-wort, a.k.a. dog strangling vine. Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Sean with beardtongue or Erin with milkweed? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. Fact CheckWe weren’t quite certain, but our memories were right: monarch butterflies are listed as endangered in Canada and, as of December 2024, threatened in the United States. However, it’s also important to know that provinces also have their own systems of classification. In Ontario, the monarch is only a species of “special concern,” which doesn’t come with the protections that “endangered” and “threatened” do.La Grassa, J. (2024, December 13). Canadian monarch enthusiasts, experts welcome possible new protections for butterfly in U.S. CBC. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/monarch-butterflies-southwestern-ontario-1.7407440#:~:text=In%20Ontario%2C%20the%20monarch%20is,receive%20species%20or%20habitat%20protection.%22 Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com CreditsWebsite Design and Illustration by Sophia AlladinIntro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-playsLicense code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PHCitationsMoving Penstemon from Scrophulariaceae to PlantaginaceaeGerry. (2016, January 24). Genus Penstemon Moved from Scrophulariaceae to Plantaginaceae. USWildflowers.com Journal. https://journal.uswildflowers.com/2016/01/genus-penstemon-moved-from-scrophulariaceae-to-plantaginaceae/ Penstemon Basics:Hairy Beardtongue. (2025, January 8). Ontario Native Plants. https://onplants.ca/shop/penstemon-hirsutus/ TWC Staff. (2023, February 22). Penstemon hirsutus (By The University of Texas at Austin). Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center. https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=PEHI The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1998b, July 20). Penstemon | Native, perennial, flowering. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/plant/PenstemonA Beginner’s Guide to Native PenstemonsNative Penstemons: A Beginner’s Guide. (2024, December 22). The Plant Native. https://theplantnative.com/plant/penstemon/ Medicinal uses of WildflowersMedicinal uses (By Oregon State University). (2019, March 13). College of Agricultural Sciences. https://agsci.oregonstate.edu/mes/sustainable-wildflower-seed-production/medicinal-uses Ellen Zachos, author of the books Backyard Forager: 65 familiar plants you didn’t know you could eat, The Forager’s Pantry: Cooking with wild edibles, and How to Forage for Wild Foods Without Dying: An absolute beginner’s guide to identifying 35 wild, edible plants, and moreZachos, E. Backyard forager. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://backyardforager.com/The David Suzuki Foundation Butterflyway ProjectThe Butterflyway Project. (2025, January 8). David Suzuki Foundation. https://davidsuzuki.org/take-action/act-locally/butterflyway/Your local Native Plant Society will have information about the milkweed that grows in your area.Native Plant Societies. (n.d.). North American Native Plant Society. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://nanps.org/native-plant-societies/ The Xerces Society Milkweed Finder can help you find seeds if you want to grow your own.Milkweed Finder. The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Protection. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://xerces.org/milkweed/milkweed-seed-finderRaising monarch butterfliesPasternak, Carol. How to Raise Monarch Butterflies: A Step-By-Step Guide for Kids (How it Works). E-book ed., Firefly Books Ltd., 2015. The life cycle and migration of monarch butterflies“Life Cycle”, Monarch Joint Venture, https://monarchjointventure.org/monarch-biology/life-cycle. Accessed 20 November, 2024. A close study of milkweed and the species it hostsHoldrege, Craig. “The Story of an Organism: Common Milkweed”, The Nature Institute, 2010, www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege/the-story-of-an-organism-common-milkweedTimestamps00:11 Intro01:04 What’s Growing On?01:50 Sean’s Puppy Update02:03 Erin’s New Book05:00 The Plant Face-Off05:23 Face-Off Results for Poinsettia vs. Amaryllis06:30 Sean’s Plant: Penstemon, a.k.a. Beardtongue06:57 The Reclassification of Penstemon08:58 The Value of Dates on Research Materials11:03 Penstemon Species and Ranges12:19 Penstemon In Your Garden14:21 Penstemon Pollinators, Featuring Bee Butts16:38 Learning Medicinal Uses for Plants19:30 Tending Penstemon23:58 Erin’s Plant: Common Milkweed25:56 What is Rhizome?27:51 National Garden Bureau’s Year Of the Asclepias28:55 Milkweed Misnomers30:14 The Destruction of Common Milkweed31:43 Toxic Sap and Nuanced Conversations35:09 Would You Eat (cooked) Milkweed?35:58 When Growing Milkweed Kills Monarchs39:52 How to Source Milkweed for Your Region41:23 Saving Monarchs—who, how, and why46:00 The Problem of Dog-Strangling Vine48:16 Outro

We’re always pretty nerdy on Plants Always Win, but in this interview episode Alex Meinders helps us take it to a whole new level. He’s a wildlife biologist and videogame enthusiast whose passion project is the YouTube and TikTok channel Geek Ecology. He uses his real-world science know-how to analyze the biology and ecology of Pokémon—yes, those quirky monsters from the cartoon, card game, and video games. This week Alex speculates with us about the plant-inspired class of grass-type Pokémon. We consider their place in the food web (are they animals or vegetables?), their evolutionary history (what environmental pressure caused them to look like plants?) and their methods of reproduction (do they create clones by seed and genetic diversity by egg?). If you’re worried about missing out on real-world plant talk, never fear! We dig into some fascinating plants along the way, including the parasitic corpse flower, the piratical ghost pipe, and mandrakes, which really do look like that.  Find Alex on YouTube, TikTok, and Twitter at @GeekEcology.Fact Check:We promised some fact-checking during the episode! Here are the results: Alex brought up the subject of a tissue-culture mammoth meatball that made news headlines. This was created in 2023 by Australian company Vow as a way to bring attention to their cultivated meat products. It turns out the meatball was not eaten since no one knows how our immune systems will react to protein from 10,000-year-old DNA. If someone wanted to eat it, the company would need to re-do the process with closer attention paid to the needs of regulators. But it’s a great story!The Pokémon Grimer was part of Generation 1, which came out in Japan in 1996. Points to Sean for remembering that accurately.It was actually four different fish who beat Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, since, for health reasons, their owner swapped in a different one every twelve hours. But, yes, the notoriously fail-proof game has been beaten by the random movements of fish swimming around a tank with quadrants mapped to the controller buttons.We also mention the Feejee Mermaid. It turns out there were many such “mermaids” made from combining the bodies of fish and monkeys. They have cultural significance as “ningyo” in Japan, but when westerners like PT Barnum got their hands on them in the nineteenth century, shenanigans ensued.  Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com CreditsWebsite Design and Illustration by Sophia AlladinIntro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-playsLicense code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PHCitationsThe mammoth meatball (which was not, in fact, eaten by anyone):Carrington, D. (2023b, March 28). Meatball from long-extinct mammoth created by food firm. The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/28/meatball-mammoth-created-cultivated-meat-firm?CMP=share_btn_url P.T. Barnum’s Feejee Mermaid (one of many from the 1800s):Szalay, J. (2016, September 9). The Feejee Mermaid: Early Barnum Hoax. livescience.com. https://www.livescience.com/56037-feejee-mermaid.html The meaning behind the name Oddish: Fandom. (n.d.). Oddish. Codex Gamicus. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://gamicus.fandom.com/wiki/Oddish Mandrakes:The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1998, July 20). Mandrake | Description, Species, & Traditions. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/plant/mandrake-Mandragora-genus#ref202668 Corpse flower, Rafflesia arnoldi, definitely the inspiration behind Vileplume Rafflesia arnoldi. (n.d.). Kew Royal Botanic Gardens. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://www.kew.org/plants/rafflesia-arnoldi Ghost pipe, a mycoheterotroph:Ghost pipe. (n.d.). Nature Conservancy Canada. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://www.natureconservancy.ca/en/what-we-do/resource-centre/featured-species/plants/ghost-pipe.htmlTimestamps00:46 Introduction01:56 Pursuing wildlife biology because Jurassic Park isn't real3:54 What is Geek Ecology?5:08 Pokémon Food Webs10:27 The Fish who beat Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire11:30 Why “grass type” and not “plant type”?13:02 Are Pokémon their own kingdom of life?14:00 A discussion on evolution18:07 Angiosperms (flowering plants) and gymnosperms (non-flowering plants)19:09 Impatiens would make good Pokémon20:30 Plant Pokémon reproduction: seeds AND eggs??22:10 Sean wants a Pokémon breeding simulator12:45 Do Pokémon need to be pollinated?25:29 What plant inspired the Oddish?30:58 Vileplume: it’s just a corpse flower, right?34:45 Parasitic plant tangent29:25 Pokémon with fake Latin names40:50 Find Geek Ecology online42:55 Contact Us & Outro

In this Versus episode, it’s the battle of herbs and spices. Get your fill of these fascinating aromatic plants that have flavoured our food and changed our history since paleolithic times. Learn why they bother smelling so good—and what you can do to make the most of their flavour—then get ready to cast your vote in the Plant Face-Off. Sean is representing the herbs with bay laurel, a plant not to be confused with the many other bays and laurels in the world—especially not the toxic ones. Learn how it grows, how to preserve the leaves, and why there are so many misconceptions about its safety. Erin follows up with mustard seed and how to grow and prepare it…but first she shakes things up with some tasty knowledge about spices around the world.Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Sean with bay leaves or Erin with mustard seed? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com CreditsWebsite Design and Illustration by Sophia AlladinIntro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-playsLicense code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PHCitationsWhat is a spice?Hogeback, J. (n.d.). What’s the difference between an herb and a spice? Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-an-herb-and-a-spiceEssential Oils/Volatile OilsBiology Online. (2023, September 15). Volatile oil - Definition and Examples - Biology Online Dictionary. Biology Articles, Tutorials & Dictionary Online. https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/volatile-oiliHerb.org’s Herbs of the YearInternational Herb Association. (2023, May 30). Herb of the Year™. https://www.iherb.org/herb-of-the-year/ Bay laurel’s history and useBelsinger, S. (2009, March 18). Bay (Laurus nobilis): From Legend and Lore to Fragrance and Flavor. Fine Gardening. https://www.finegardening.com/article/bay-laurus-nobilis-from-legend-and-lore-to-fragrance-and-flavor?srsltid=AfmBOoonN-BDS8stQ2WPnnKPaq6O6XNdSRjOD1nROnT2zNqDeIo7KlEC The toxicity of laurel hedgesHopes Grove Nurseries. (2024, September 23). Are Laurel hedges poisonous?. https://www.hopesgrovenurseries.co.uk/knowledge-base/are-laurel-hedges-poisonous/#:~:text=You%20are%20here%3A%20Home%20%C2%BB%20Are,cause%20serious%20complications%20if%20ingested Medicinal uses and side effects of bay laurelBAY LEAF: Overview, uses, side effects, precautions, interactions, dosing and reviews. (n.d.). WebMD. Retrieved December 27, 2024, from https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-685/bay-leaf The biology of white mustard (also known as yellow mustard)Canadian Food Inspection Agency. (2022, May 6). The biology of Sinapis alba L. (mustard). inspection.canada.ca. https://inspection.canada.ca/en/plant-varieties/plants-novel-traits/applicants/directive-94-08/biology-documents/sinapis-alba#a24 Growing saffron in OntarioBalzer, D. (2024, November 6). Growing saffron – in a cool Canadian climate! Donna Balzer. https://donnabalzer.com/growing-saffron-in-a-cool-canadian-climate/ Timestamps00:12 Intro00:53 What’s Growing On?01:07 Erin Gets Native Seed Mail02:17 This Episode is Dedicated to Siblings02:58 The Plant Face Off03:08 Herbs and Spices: Definitions04:25 How Bias Affects Research06:00 Sean’s Plant: Bay Laurel08:05 The Laurecea Plant Family08:45 A Laurel by Any Other Name Might be Toxic10:02 Mediterranean Evergreens11:22 Tree Genders13:28 Medicinal Uses of Bay Laurel14:40 Bay Leaves: They’re Sharp17:49 Preserving Bay Leaves19:40 Growing Bay Laurel 20:40 Aromatics to Deter Pests23:50 Erin’s Spice Journey24:59 Preserving Spice Potency26:41 Spice Fun Facts28:56 Erin’s Plant: Mustard 29:12 The Fascinating Brassica Family32:28 Making Your Own Mustard36:26 Mustard Types39:13 Q&A: Low-Fuss, Low-Light Houseplants43:23 Listener Feedback45:41 Contact Us & Outro

In this interview episode, Sean chats with Paul Zammit about the life of a garden communicator. Paul has had a long career in horticulture and is presently a professor of Horticulture and Environmental Studies at Niagara College as well as CBC’s Ontario Today gardening expert—although “expert” is a term he would like to contest. After all, we never stop learning, and that’s especially true in the garden. Paul and Sean talk about selfish gardening (taking space from nature for ourselves) compared to building a biodiverse space that wildlife can enjoy alongside us—even if that means broadening our definition of beauty. They lament the spread of incomplete and untrue gardening tips online, although they’re still excited about the information-sharing power of social media. And although they’d happily talk forever, they force themselves to wrap up the conversation by answering some listener questions about insect-afflicted ash trees and re-blooming orchids. Find Paul on Instagram at @paulsplantpix  Paul Zammit is a professor at  Niagara College’s School of Environment and Horticulture. He can be found giving garden advice on CBC’s Ontario Today program He occasionally co-leads international tours of public and private gardens. Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com CreditsWebsite Design and Illustration by Sophia AlladinIntro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-playsLicense code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH0:45 Preamble1:15 Interview2:33 Paul’s Impressive Résumé4:04 Leading Garden Tours7:11 “Garden Expert”, and Other Misnomers13:07 Gardening is different everywhere!15:25 Biodiversity: If You Plant it, They Will Come16:24 Invasive Species and Constructive Conversations21:30 Rethinking Beauty24:03 Cultivars Aren’t Evil26:24 Gardening for Ourselves and for Nature35:20 Social Media and Iffy Plant Hacks42:07 Intermission42:50 Q&A44: 26 Emerald Ash Borers46:35 Re-Blooming Orchids53:12 Paul's Shout-Outs56:20 Outro