2. That's Grammy shit!
Title: That's Grammy shit!Welcome to this episode where we dive deep into The Tragically Hip's album, Up To Here. Join us as we discuss the band's growth, refinement, and southern rock influences that make this album a memorable piece in their repertoire. We'll also explore the impact of producer Don Smith and the impact this record had on our friends Pete and Tim.In this episode, we examine standout tracks like "When The Weight Comes Down," as well as the storytelling prowess of Gord Downie in songs like "Trickle Down". We'll also delve into the possible connections between The Tragically Hip and heavy metal bands like Metallica.Join Pete and JD as they share their thoughts on the darkness found in different parts of Canada and how it influenced The Hip's music. Don't miss this exciting journey into the world of The Tragically Hip!https://ratethispodcast.com/ghtthChapters:- (0:00:00) - Getting Hip to the Hip- (0:10:52) - Tragically Hip Album Review- (0:27:13) - Analyzing Two Songs- (0:40:10) - Tragic Hip Music Storytelling- (0:52:59) - Review of the Tragically Hip's Album- (1:06:56) - Canadian Band's Dark Songwriting AnalysisKeywords: The Tragically Hip, Up To Here, southern rock, Don Smith, album review, Gord Downie, storytelling, Metallica, Canada, music influencesLive tracks featured in the episode:Blow at High Dough - Barrie ON 1990Everytime You Go - London ON 1989Transcript0:00:00 - Speaker 1We're now one episode into this grand experiment, and I'm not sure if we've learned anything concrete at this point. I think it's safe to say that the EP surprised Pete and Tim. Going into this, they were under the impression that the hip is a very special band with cultural significance, and the whole nine and Then their first foray into said music Gave them werewolf baby. Now, before you go sending me nasty emails, know that in my heart the EP has a charming place on the mantle. I wouldn't hide from the music on the EP, nor, however, what I seek it out. Now, though, we move on to a more honed and refined version of our bar band. from Kingston Up to here is a taste of the South, delivered on the backs of songs that have stood the test of time, Produced by a famed knob turner, Don Smith, who had previously worked with the likes of you, to the traveling willbaries and Keith Richards, to name just a few. At any rate, let's just say, the hip picked up what Don Smith was putting down, and together they birthed the classic. That's what I think anyway. What, though, will our friends Pete and Tim think of up to here on their first listen? Let's find out in this episode of getting hip to the hip. 0:01:25 - Speaker 2Long sliced brewery presents getting hip to the hip. 0:01:35 - Speaker 1Hey, it's JD here and welcome to getting hip to the hip, a tragically hip podcast. I'm here, as always, with my friends Pete and Tim, and I want to ask them right up front How are you doing, boys? 0:01:47 - Speaker 3Doing well, doing great. It's Monday, Monday morning in Portland and there's frost on the ground. 0:01:52 - Speaker 1Oh, Really not here. 0:01:54 - Speaker 3Yeah, Yeah, Oh, no, no. 0:01:57 - Speaker 5Molly is. it's Monday night in Malaga and You know it's a thunderstorm right now outside, so I hope my internet holds up, but It's getting chilly. man, We're definitely in the winter, That's for sure. 0:02:12 - Speaker 1Oh god, What does that mean? like 20 degrees. 0:02:16 - Speaker 5It's, it's 16 right now. You know that's. Oh I'm trying for you. 0:02:21 - Speaker 1What is it here right now? It's four. 0:02:25 - Speaker 5Oh god man, No thanks Geez. 0:02:31 - Speaker 1I'm a hardy Canadian, for four is good for this time of year, for is like your coat's unzipped and you're drinking a stout. 0:02:38 - Speaker 5I can't drink those stouts here. Let me tell you, man, I'm sticking a light beer, That's for sure. 0:02:43 - Speaker 1Oh, yeah, I'm, yeah I'm, I'm well into the stouts, That's for sure. So up to here, I believe it's recorded in Memphis. I'm gonna double check that right now. Yep, Memphis, Tennessee, and it's got that sort of muddy southern Field to it. you know it's like a well, It's like a well-worn in pickup truck. you know it's got some, it's got some mud on the sides, Really comfortable to drive. That's what this record is and it comes on the tail of their 87 EP. But in those two years the growth to me anyway seems Market. you know, like there is a market growth in terms of, you know the songwriting and the songwriting, The lyrics in particular. but the but the content, you know is is just a little more Worn in like a great pair of jeans. What do you guys think, Pete? Wow. 0:03:43 - Speaker 5Well, you said something in beginning of the Of your kickoff and it's really hard, because I wanted to make this note, because I know that you, there's probably some pretty hardcore hip fans listening to this. so, given the Yeah, given the fact that there's only a week to To listen to these, to really dig into them, you know, I'm just, Basically, on behalf of Tim and myself, begging for forgiveness. you know, don't send hate mail because it's, it's, It's tough, like it's. I know Tim is really a solid music connoisseur, Probably well more than I am, and you know No, but you know he's, he's pretty thoughtful, But, but, but I thought about it too. like, like bands that I really love, like God man, What would I, how, what would my reaction be for listening to two jokers Who never heard this before and have a week to listen to it? you know what? what would they? You know what I'm saying, Tim, Do you do? JD, Do you feel me like I? 0:04:49 - Speaker 1I feel like there's daggers toward us, you know first of all, Pete, at getting hip to the hip. calm is where you want to go with your complaints about. No, I'm kidding, but You got to think in terms of context. here everyone gets the conceit of the shell. people got this record, people got their hands on this record And they got to sit with it for a year before the next record came out. 0:05:15 - Speaker 5So yeah, yeah, you know, Just asking for forgiveness, but all in all, to what your your your. your point was JD, I mean I did. I know we're gonna go song by song, but I just want to say I I started off with this record. This is kind of the same way I did the other one, the last EP. first I started off on my computer, was not feeling it Pop the pop the earbuds in, went for a run with it, Really started to warm up to it and then I took it out in the car and and JD, you've been in my cars, You know that's got a premium audio sound system in it Yeah and oh man, Oh man, It is. I want to walk into a roadhouse somewhere in Memphis and this band's playing and just whoo, there's a lot of crunch man. Oh, I dig it. I got lots to say, but I'll send it over to Tim. 0:06:10 - Speaker 3Well, I had a similar Reflection. I was talking to my wife the other day and about the band and I Said or you know what if my favorite band was in a podcast, someone else was reviewing it, and What if they didn't like it? What if they loved it or what have you You know in either way? I thought, well, hopefully, if I, you know, if I'm an open-minded Pod listener to my favorite band, Hopefully it would be entertaining, Hopefully it'd be funny to hear these Two schmucks talking about what they think you know and with without much background at all. It's kind of like what I said last time without you know, ever trying a certain type of food. It's like, oh, my god, okay, Let's do this. but I am with this album. I, Yes, I started it in the car and it just seemed like really good road trip music. I totally concur with you, Pete, about it being in the boss, in the car Felt like road trip music, felt like, you know, I wanted to drive to go see a show or go see a show by them. Definitely worked in the car. listen to it at home a fair amount, I think. in general it feels, and no production value. definitely more polished Than the last album we listened to totally. yet You get very familiar, like the storytelling is still there, right? The song structures changed a little bit but like the. the DNA is definitely still there. Compared to the last album, Yeah, it's like pinnacle. 0:07:51 - Speaker 1Top perfection bar rock. Yeah, I heard, You know. 0:07:54 - Speaker 3George Thoreau, good like guitar. I just heard this bluesy rock and roll bar Kind of just awesome riffing and I you know, now that you mentioned it, Being in Memphis, I just absolutely heard some country Wow kind of rock and roll tones in there. Oh, that's big time, big time, Elvis, you know there's, There's definitely some of that in there, from Memphis for sure. more so, much more so than the last album. 0:08:25 - Speaker 1Interesting. So, experience wise, did you prefer this record to the last record or not? or where were you there? 0:08:34 - Speaker 3For me. I kind of likened the last record as a pizza with the works, like where is this going? kind of thing. Throw it all together and see what we get. and this one is for sure an evolution. So I would say, sure, I like it more. but it just to me also just feels like an evolution and I'm curious. I was describing it to a friend, and actually to my wife actually, and she was like it sounds like it's just going to get better And I said, well, I definitely hope so, As we listen. 0:09:11 - Speaker 1Yeah, well, I mean, that's what makes this interesting to me getting your first listens in on these records that were seminal to not only me but to a great swath of our country and places you know near and far. I am curious whether the evolution continues for you, And I think that that's going to be fascinating as we as we roll into things. So, Tim, thanks for that. Now, Pete, what have you got in terms of last questions or comments on this record, Or do you have any? Let me know. 0:09:55 - Speaker 5Oh, there was one question I was going to ask you to JD Diamond status. Yeah, So that's Canada's version of platinum, But I'm curious to know why they have that different status. when, for example, if you have the Stones or the Beatles who are from the UK, does the UK have a different? 0:10:21 - Speaker 1I don't know if they have a different one. I've never heard if they have a different one. I know that you guys have diamond, like America has diamond as well. 0:10:28 - Speaker 2It's 10 million copies. 0:10:29 - Speaker 1Yeah, it's 10 million copies. 0:10:31 - Speaker 2We do. 0:10:32 - Speaker 1It's 10 times what we have. So diamond in Canada is one million and platinum in Canada is 100,000. Okay, I see, And it jives out because America has roughly 10, 10 times the population. So, you know, 100,000 and a million. What's interesting, though, is the province of Quebec, which is, you know, I think, 11, 10 or 11 million people. they have artists that have, in the past, consistently hit platinum status, or diamond status, rather, with 100,000, pardon me, a million copies of a record, which is staggering, You know, when you figure, the rest of Canada has a difficult time putting together a million, a million sales in records. Now, this is all off the table, now that we don't sell records anymore, But back in the day, this was a, you know, a big marker of things. So, yeah, you have Quebec. that just is, you know, able to market themselves to. it's because they can put up stuff in French and they can, they can. you know they have access to that audience. 0:11:52 - Speaker 5That's crazy. Yeah, it was a lot of questions. 0:11:55 - Speaker 1What were you listening to in 89? Do you remember Either of you guys? 0:11:59 - Speaker 3Yes. 0:12:00 - Speaker 1Where are you at? 0:12:02 - Speaker 3I was senior in high school. 0:12:04 - Speaker 1Yeah. 0:12:05 - Speaker 3Yeah, it was everything from Southern California punk rock. Yeah, we had a lot of local punk rock going on and we had you know friends in punk rock bands But you know kind of flip the rock and roll coin. I was also listening to like, oh, a lot of new wave, Holy cow, a lot of new wave kind of influence for my sister And that's everything 80s new wave. And then also I was for a period there like a big fan of the cult. You know I like Epic Guitar. I don't always need it, but I like a band that has you know back bone drum bass, blah, blah. but I love a great guitar player And the hip has definitely some guitar going on. 0:12:54 - Speaker 5Yeah, 89. 89, I was. I was I'm a tad younger than you guys, but 89, it was coming out of like some late stage Steely Dan and and Huey Lewis sports was just, I mean, God damn Nice. I don't think there was a bigger album and we talked about that last week. you know some Huey Lewis vibes in there And then you know, I just feel like I went right into. you know Guns N' Roses and the Motley crew of that time before getting thrust into. you know 90s grunge, like everybody else did with Alice and Chains and and and you know Soundgarden and eventually Nirvana. 0:13:45 - Speaker 1I was a big Pearl Jam guy, That was kind of where I was at. Okay, Yeah, I was a Pearl Jam guy, and but that was later. That was, you know, into the 90s. Back in 89, when this came out, I was listening to hair metal. I was straight up listening to hair metal And I recalled, on the intro, the cold open of the first episode. you know, when I heard the hip for the first time and the impact that it made on me. you know, in spite of the, the garishness of the hair metal that I was listening to, there was something that I really liked about this pickup truck band from Kingston, And you know there's a lot to like on this record for sure. So what do you say? we get into it and attack this sucker track by track. Yeah, good to go, man, All right, So we kick off with Blow It High, Do Welcome back and welcome back to CFY's fourth annual Canada Day Festival for Canada's 123rd birthday. 0:14:54 - Speaker 4We're at very Ontario half the time of our lives. Believe me, this band is going to be very, very hot. We'd like you to listen now to Tragically Hip. He's a rapper like Tizorim, never like the stars To throw some passion, throws a passion in some. just bring him on. We're so close, the best that we get to listen now. But you can't look me in for the smile of your eyes. the further it's gone, the higher I go. And if I'm high I go, and if you blow the cry I go. Maybe I feel fine, I'm pretty, just genuine. It makes no sense. it makes no sense for a track to be unified And if I'm hip-sick you should leave it high. It was the strangest thing. I should move so fast, move so fast in the better way I pray Sometimes, the best that we get to listen. now you gotta remember the smile of your eyes. the further it's gone, the higher I go. And when you blow the cry, I go. Now that the speedway, the same evidence, the same. Well, I ain't no movie star but I can give it hand in a thing In the better way I pray Sometimes, the best that we get to listen. now you gotta remember the smile of your eyes. the further it's gone, the higher I go, And if I'm high, I go. Yeah, I'm gonna fly, I go, Gonna fly, I go, I fly. Now that the speedway. the same evidence, the same evidence. 0:19:25 - Speaker 3I mean to me that just crushed it. as the first song, It just hit the ground running, which I love. I'm really into checking out song orders and there was a while many, many, many years ago, I was hoping to be a fan of song three. There was a cadence to some albums that I really enjoyed and this song as a song one it was super good. This is kind of where I mentioned hearing guitar licks that you'd hear from George Thurgood or you know. it was very kind of smithereens, Tom Petty friendly in that way. Some of the lyrics like oh, what do I have? Don't get ahead of yourself. or faster it gets, the less you need to know. I love that line faster it gets, the less you need to know. It's like, just keep the momentum going, And that's also a song that was awesome in the car. 0:20:21 - Speaker 5Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, what a fucking banger of a first tune, The slide. I had the same thing. I very much got some Thurgood tunes or vibes in there, The way the song starts out, I think, with the drums and then a little crunch guitar, and then that in my notes I wrote down the layers, the way they layer the song into getting it, getting the ball rolling, and it just from no disrespect to the EP, but leaps and bounds, recording quality wise, just production, leaps and bounds. It was just. 0:21:00 - Speaker 2you tell me like well, this is going to be a fucking record. 0:21:07 - Speaker 5I was very excited from that first track, Absolutely All right, We'll stick with you and move into. 0:21:13 - Speaker 1I'll Believe in You or I'll Be Leaving You Tonight. 0:21:17 - Speaker 5Which it took me a minute to get the play on words there. I know I'm a bit dense, I'm a blonde, You can't see that for just you listeners out there, But the riff in there is just so catchy I think. at first I was like, oh, this is like a typical late 80s riff and I'll make that reference a couple of times for a few songs here. But the more I listened to it I was like I want to try to play that. I took out the guitar and I was like, oh, that's cool man, It's just cool, It's cool to play and it sounds cool And I can imagine playing it back in that time I mean, if I was alive in that time. it's just like I don't know. I'm sorry I'm trying hard time, particularly myself, but it's a really love that jam. 0:22:11 - Speaker 1We're not rock critics, so we're people who are telling it like it's Oh, yes, we are. Oh, I forgot, Put your quill away. What did you think of this one Lesser Bangs? 0:22:26 - Speaker 3Yeah, it's kind of a little bit of a similar feel. It was cranking in the car really well, I found myself I didn't know what to call it I was doing the chin back and forth to the cadence of the song. It was like kind of reminded myself. I was like I'm doing kind of the chicken thing right now. Just have this good tempo. The two minute mark around then is when Gord starts kind of talk singing, as he does sometimes, And then it moves into, as Pete mentioned, the big guitar riff. And I enjoy when the structure changes up a little bit. I think the last album I felt like there was more consistency and structure which made me lose my interest a little bit. So I like it when the tempo changes or there's like a build up, slow down, build up. you know This had a good speed to it. There's also definitely some country music influence in there. I mean, I could hear it right away. 0:23:34 - Speaker 1That's so interesting to me. I'd have to listen really hard to hear to find country in there. 0:23:41 - Speaker 3But if you listen to some, yeah, some old school kind of country and it just reminds me of, like, the era from when Elvis started to go a little more rock and roll, Like it. just it's very Memphis. It's definitely influenced by the region, I feel. 0:23:58 - Speaker 1All right. the next track on the record is another single from this record. It's probably one of the songs that if you do meet somebody that knows the Tragically Hip, they might know this song. 0:24:11 - Speaker 3Okay. 0:24:11 - Speaker 1It stands. you know it stood the test of time in their live set Throughout the nineties. it was a fertile place for them to play when they played it live. It was a fertile place for them to jam inside of and introduce or workshop new songs. So you'd get like a record two years down the road from a time that you saw them live and there'd be this worked out song. But you'd hear this rough you know this rough lyric phrase or a lick that maybe is familiar on a record two years down the road. It was such a cool little thing to hear them. you know, jam these songs out and you'd go see them. I would see them like multiple nights in a row and it would be different, Like it wasn't, like they were just fucking around and like it was spontaneous and it was very storytelling and yeah, So I'm talking way too much here. This is your show. New Orleans is sinking. 0:25:12 - Speaker 3Yeah. So you know, I'd love to hear a version of this song where they take it longer or they jam out it and or something like that. because first listen, you know the story is actually pretty doom and gloom sounding It's. you know it's kind of about maybe giving up, I don't know. It just felt like, you know, there was some dark, heavy thoughts in there and then it felt just as as a song on the album. it felt a little bit filler to me it was more staple. it was more regular hip. It just like had the typical structure I've heard thus far Wow. So I didn't think I loved it. That is fucking awesome. I like the idea of the song, but it just felt kind of like, okay, this is a, this is a song. three hip, hip song. 0:26:05 - Speaker 4No No. 0:26:07 - Speaker 1Oh wow, It'll be interesting to hear if this change. I hope so. 0:26:13 - Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. No, I want to hear, I want to hear more versions of it. 0:26:17 - Speaker 1Yeah, you should. 0:26:18 - Speaker 3Like I was saying, like it was songs have some, have some change or cadence change or an up and a down, and this just felt like, okay, this is song three. What are we going to do for four? Oh wow, Sorry, hip hip fans who have that as a moment, It's not mine yet. 0:26:36 - Speaker 5Well, I'm going to read from my notes to, but before I do, real quick, I got to say this song just by the title and the way that it started. I got this really weird feeling and I'm going to indulge me for just one moment with a story I remember when Hurricane Katrina hit in 2005. Tim, you remember, I mean JD. I don't know if the news of it was as big in your neck of the woods as it was, Oh yeah. 0:27:05 - Speaker 1It was huge, It was huge. 0:27:07 - Speaker 5But the night the hurricane made, you know, landfall, so to speak. I remember listening to a guy. you may or may not have heard of him. He used to do some something called Freeform Radio. He's the godfather of Freeform Radio. His name is Jim Ladd, Nationally syndicated, but he's from LA, and I remember smoking weed on my patio there and he said ladies and gentlemen, this is going to be really bad. It was before like the hurricane even made landfall and this is going to be really bad. And he started. the song he played was When the Levy Breaks by Led Zeppelin And it was just really dark and haunting. So I got that same vibe when I started listening to this song and I was like, like Gord's fucking vocals on this are up into this song. from everything I've heard from the EP with the most extreme, in my opinion, just the most range, the most talent. Like if I was a record producer and I'd heard this as a demo, I'd be like sign this fucking band, this guy's off the charts. There's a mention of somebody named Colonel Tom in the song And I don't know who Colonel Tom is. JD, if you got a line on this, let me know. But my initial thought was go ahead, Tim or whoever knows. No, you tell us your initial thought. My initial thought was it was a David Bowie reference to Space Up, but I could be wrong. 0:28:49 - Speaker 3I just read two references. One was just, it was about the North versus the South. you know, some war back then, back then. But then I also read a reference said that it had to do with Elvis's manager, which made me think, okay, yeah, Colonel Tom Parker. So I think that's what it ties to in Memphis and all of that. 0:29:10 - Speaker 5That makes sense. 0:29:12 - Speaker 1Yeah they talk about. this is like Gord's first foray into writing most of the songs. He's handling most of the lyrics, but not all of the lyrics. And why am I saying this? Oh, because they talk about his notebook. He was notorious for having always having a notebook on him and just writing down phrases. And you know, like he would write full lyric, full lyrics or stanzas or whatever. But even if he heard something that he thought was cool, like a cool turn of phrase, he would write that down. So maybe it was even, you know, like Colonel Tom from Memphis, and that's literally the only thing that's relevant about that lyric is that one individual moment. You know it might not be the story of the rest of the song, you know. 0:29:59 - Speaker 3Sure Yeah. 0:30:01 - Speaker 1I don't know though. Yeah, Colonel Tom Parker. That's what I've always thought. 0:30:05 - Speaker 5Good, What a song, though, man? What a fucking song. I mean, it is just chock full of dirt, you know. 0:30:13 - Speaker 1It's a dirty song, right It's yeah. It is Dirty, Dirty, It's mighty yeah. 0:30:18 - Speaker 3You know it's, it's. I just thought it was also. yeah, I agree, I agree, I just yeah, let's just. 0:30:24 - Speaker 1There's other tracks that you like better. That's cool, That's totally cool. It's not. it's not on my top 10 list, So. 0:30:30 - Speaker 3I'd like to hear other versions of it maybe other live versions of it and see how they can do it Me too. 0:30:36 - Speaker 1It became a staple. for sure, It was a. it was a staple. 0:30:38 - Speaker 3Yeah, That's. that's exactly what my take of it was. 0:30:42 - Speaker 1Whereas the next song was not so much a staple Early on, it was, but it didn't live on in the set list for forever. but it's a great example of Gord, you know, sort of weaving a yarn here and telling a story and using actual Canadian history but giving it a unique spin. So you know, he's playing with things a little bit, but he's telling the story and then he makes it about his own family. What do you guys think of 38 years old? 0:31:14 - Speaker 4I've got my name in administration So People leave. don't have people left, nothing to feed. The last thing they wanna do is hang around here. Most of came from town from long French name, But one other dozen was a hometown shame. Same pattern on the table, same clock on the wall, Been one seat empty, 80 years and all Freezing slow time, away from the world. He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl. He's 38 years old, never kissed a girl. Music. We're sitting on the table. heard the telephone ring. Father said he'd tell him if he saw anything Other type from the window in the middle of the night. Held back the curtains for my older brother, Mike. See, my sister got a ring. so a man got killed. Love for which prison man's buried on the bill. Folks spend back a normal when they close the case. They still stare at the shoes. in the past, our place, Music, Music, Music. My mother called. the horror finally ceased. He whispered yeah, for the time being, Natalie, No, but show the squad, come make a phone. Said let's go, Michael's son, we're taking you home. Same pattern on the table, same clock on the wall, Been one seat empty, 18 years and all Freezing slow time, away from the world. He's 38 years old never kissed a girl. He's 38 years old never kissed a girl. He's 38 years old never kissed a girl. Music, Music, Music, Music. 0:35:03 - Speaker 5Music. It's crazy. so I ended up this above all songs. I ended up doing the most research on, Started researching the prison and there was a guy who was shot there years ago And his last name was Trudeau and I was like, was he related to the prime minister or what? Like all this weird miraculous rabbit hole that I went down. But getting back to the song, I got to be totally honest with you. So I know you guys feel me on this. when you look at like records during this time that came out, You'd have the first one or two to three songs will be just these fucking bangers. And then song four just you look in the structure of the record is going to bring it down a little bit. It's kind of like, okay, everybody relax. you think about it like even playing a live show. That's just the way that the records were made back in the day. And I start hearing that and I'm hearing this song come in with the guitar And I'm like, oh, this is man. those first three songs are fucking bangers. And I'm like, no, they're just going to be this fucking cheesy. yeah, just, you know, Give me some acoustic, a little bit of love, whatever. And I got to say this is probably my favorite song in the record And it took some evolution on my part because first I started digging in the lyrics And I was like you know there's rape prisoners, murder, like all this crazy shit, And I'm like what the fuck is going on here. And then you know ultimately just the song itself, like the melody and everything involved, Which is it's just. it's a I probably my favorite song in the record. Sorry to spoil your alert, but yeah, loved it. loved it. 0:37:00 - Speaker 1It gave the record legs. I think this is the fourth single from the record, Maybe the third or fourth single. So there were four singles on the record and I want to say this is the third, But it might have been the fourth, so gave it some legs as well. 0:37:13 - Speaker 3Favorite song. I'm just confirming 38 years old favorite song. 0:37:20 - Speaker 5On this record. Yeah, I just think it's really 38 years old. was it never been kissed, never made love? 0:37:31 - Speaker 3Yeah, all that, yeah, Never kissed a girl. 0:37:35 - Speaker 5Just, I don't know man, I feel like and this is crazy, I can't believe I'm going to say this And I'll probably be if you kick me off this podcast after what I'm about to say. I totally get it, But a lot of hip lyrics, especially this song about something historical. I really get some Gordon Lightfoot vibes from man. 0:38:02 - Speaker 1Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. 0:38:05 - Speaker 5You know same name, I guess, but you know, I don't, I just and that guy I fucking fucking loved Gordon Lightfoot. If you don't like it and you want to kick me off the podcast, be my guest, That's the hill I will die on. 0:38:16 - Speaker 3We'll keep you. I think I thought, okay, this is some more kind of dark, gloomy storytelling And I feel like I, you know, on an album, I don't need too much of that, I don't need a lot of that, and me personally. And I also thought, okay, if I'm at a hip show, Some dude next to me is like yelling for this song to be played. I think that's a little weird. like when would they play this song at a live show? It's just like, it's just a little much. you know, Maybe Gordon knew that in the future, true crime would be a thing. you know, podcasts and TV shows and everything. Because it just feels like I mean a song about rape and killing. It's just like how many times you need to hear that? I don't need to hear it very many times. So I thought it was super heavy and you know the same thing Like lyric just too much. Yeah, storytelling is just a lot. you know, maybe I'm too sensitive or something, But I was like, yeah, if I'm at this show with my girlfriend and some dude just keeps yelling to hear this song, we're gonna move. 0:39:24 - Speaker 1I've always said that the hip is really funny with their, because I came from the same school that Pete did With. you know especially heavy metal where it was like banger, banger, banger and then like ballad. Yeah, the ballads would be where you would slow dance and you would make out on the dance floor, you know, after you were head banging and stuff like that. And I just think the tragedy hip does the same thing. they do two slow songs or two ballads on every record, kind of thing ish. But the subject matter is never something that you would want to slow dance or make out to Like. it's always fucking heavy, heavy shit And really when you think about it it's like C, G, D, A minor on an acoustic guitar. you know it's like a three or four chord song that fits in the realm of those heavy metal ballads. But then you put that story about family over top of it and it's like Jesus Christ, this is unreal, Yeah, and you know it overall just comprises them into this epic band that can go there. 0:40:33 - Speaker 3Like not many bands even do something like that lyrically or with storytelling, you know. So, you know it's so. part of me was like, okay, what makes me feel uncomfortable about this? Because I appreciate the music and all the effort and creativity. you know, it's like it's because bands don't really do this often Sinister type storytelling. maybe I know a person or two who kind of fits this mold of a character a little bit to a degree. you know it's just like, wow, okay, What's the next song for me? 0:41:07 - Speaker 5The song when I heard the guitar start and I got to tell you JD I don't know if I told you this, I know I didn't mention this to you, Tim, But the very much got some, you know, with those, those that rock ballads and nothing else matters, vibes from Metallica. And growing up in Downey, where I was born, you know, James Hetfield went to my high school, so, like you, you if you weren't a Metallica fan like you, Or you could be excommunicated from the city. like everybody was Metallica fan Like you. just you just weren't not, you know, a Metallica fan. and getting to Tim's question about why or you, JD, you said why the hip never. I mean it's the eternal question why the hip never broke through. You know, here you got this ballad that everybody's expecting to like dance to at a concert or whatever. but then there's lyrics of, like you know, rape and murder and stuff like they did. they did went outside the box, And that's kind of cool, because not a lot of bands do that Exactly. And so like they sacrificed the ability of being, you know, the ability of of fame or whatever it may be, to have to be a fucking cool outside the box band. I don't know. that's my view. 0:42:36 - Speaker 3Well, there's some also, like I was trying to say, there's some artistic merit to it. you know if, if not, a lot of bands go, go there with something. I mean I mean at the same time, era, late 80s. it's not like Morrissey wasn't talking about doom and gloom with Smith or the Cure or something. I mean it was right there, right in there, but I don't know when it. for me it just hits differently when it's comprised of the sound formula that the hip have, and there he's just like letting the listener have it with this character, and it's just guitar driven rock and roll, it's just. 0:43:13 - Speaker 5It's like a preacher that's telling the congregation like, like he's saying some, some shit to the congregation that, hey, you may not like what you're about to hear, but you're going to fucking hear it whether you like it or not. 0:43:25 - Speaker 1Exactly, I don't know that's. 0:43:27 - Speaker 5does that make sense to you, Tim? 0:43:28 - Speaker 3I mean, that's kind of the way I'm going to provide for you, For sure, for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to jump the gun, but I kind of had a similar, you know, mindset, feel from the next song. 0:43:41 - Speaker 1Well, let's go into it. she didn't know. I was going to say it's sort of dark too. you know it's couched in this blues, bass, lick sort of thing. you get a nice groove in the back with the bass and the drums, but then those lyrics come in and it's like man, yeah, this is some more broken hearted, dark shit. 0:44:10 - Speaker 3At the same time, it does have this groove to it. there's almost this like I don't want to say pop, but there's this, there's this beat to it that is a little bit different than the other songs. it's I don't know, it's it's Interesting. A little bit different but there's like yeah, yeah, exactly it, it, it. to me it ties a little bit more back to the overall feel, not conceptually with lyrics, but from blow it high to like there's a drive to it, there's a good. it embraced me more just musically in the song it's, it's, it feels like a good sing along, like I could hear the song on the radio driving across Canada. 0:44:51 - Speaker 1You do, I'm. I'm very curious why it wasn't a single it's perfect length for a single it's. it's three minutes and 30 seconds. you know it's, you're in, you're out. there's a nice bridge. you get a little bit of silliness. maybe the subject matter, I don't know, but 38 years old, was a single, so yeah. so what do you got? 0:45:12 - Speaker 5Well, I kind of, you know, just sticking with what Tim said, you know the amount of tragedy fitting with the name of the band involved in the lyrics. I really think, because a lot of the, a lot of the sound that that that Memphis, correct, it was recorded in Memphis. Yeah, that that vibe is just, it is consistent. I mean, I feel like if you asked me where do you think this record was recorded, Pete, I probably would have said Memphis, if I, if, like you, had a gun to my head and I had to guess, just because this the overall sound of it. And one thing I noticed really strangely and I don't know if you got this too, Tim JD, you may have noticed this listening to it so many more times, but moving from the end of this song into boots or hearts, there's a vinyl crackle. there's a tape crackle and and maybe the hardcore hip fans will get this. So at the end of she didn't know if the song ends with like a tape crackle and then the begin. it's something you don't, at least I didn't hear on any other songs. you hear a tape crackle at the beginning of boots or hearts. 0:46:39 - Speaker 3I heard it. 0:46:40 - Speaker 5I know you're talking about you know I'm talking about it, just I heard it. 0:46:44 - Speaker 3I heard it on my, on my sono speaker. I heard it and I went back and replayed it and stuck my ear over there. I was like what the hell is that sound? I mean, I'm familiar with what that sound is but yeah, I thought it was like coming from outside or something because it wasn't on any other tune and I was like right right. 0:47:03 - Speaker 1I think if you did it on more tunes it would take away from it, but to me it's. to me it's like just an accoutrement. that's like there to remind you that this is rustic, this is, you know, this is coming out on CD, but this should be, you know, like vinyl was. vinyl wasn't as popular in 1989 as cassettes and CDs were. CDs were really just emerging, but cassettes were like huge but it was still recorded on tape, I would imagine yes, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, for sure yeah so you add a little bit of that into it and it's like you know it makes it sound more like authentic. 0:47:41 - Speaker 3I don't know, that's just my, I mean back back then you know BC boys were doing some like needle-hitting the the disc sound to start off songs. or you know, back then people were take starting to take other sounds as the beginning of songs or even ending songs or whatever. so I think it kind of it fits, definitely fits for 1989 let's go to boots, baby there's a line in there. 0:48:06 - Speaker 5I don't know if there's one line in that song that gets me anybody. anybody want to throw a guess out there? I don't know. no, Tim. Gady, no, okay it's even babies raid raised by wolves. know the wind, he's just like what? 0:48:24 - Speaker 3yeah, man, dude, that was the second wolf, the second wolf reference earth song. right, you know for sure there's more to come imagine what it will. 0:48:36 - Speaker 1hardcore fan I'm not joking, there's more to come these f**king douchebags man this song to me it felt really long. 0:48:46 - Speaker 3that it was not long and it felt like a little more country than the last ones. definitely, you know boots or hearts come on. you know it's like okay, is this the crossover song to the south of the United States to get more fans? yeah, I just the lyrics was a single yeah, for sure, I can't imagine a single, but it was a single who was managing these guys at the time who were like we got it, we got it, we got, at least get the south, because if you get the southern belt of the US, that's like that could be a business, you know so yeah, when I heard the song, I was like, oh yeah, I get it. they were after something here and it seems very it's too much more country to me, so I just kept moving well, if you know, you also have to think too like. 0:49:35 - Speaker 5I don't know how long the recording process took for them, but if you're, you know you're Canadian boys. from where, what? which province are they from? JD? 0:49:45 - Speaker 1they're from Ontario, so they're from where I am, about two hours, about two hours east of where I live. they live in King. there, they came from Kingston okay, yeah, Kingston, that's right. 0:49:56 - Speaker 5so, if you know, maybe they, maybe they individually travel, but you're all there as a group of people, you're recording a record, it's your first full length studio album and you're spending time in Memphis, Tennessee. I mean, I see what you're saying, Tim. then maybe the manager, the the high rubs for maybe like, but guys, we got a, we got to do this. but also, you know, it's the same thing, as you know, that that culture takes a hold of you. you know you spend JD when you over in the UK for the pave tour for a while. how quickly did it? I mean, we don't say it in the United States, but how quick did it take you to say cheers instead of thanks? you know, yeah, yeah, it only takes a couple of days and then asking for the toilet. 0:50:46 - Speaker 1that's, that's the. that's the biggest thing for me. like I just thought, like it sounds so rude, like where's the hey man, where's the toilet? you know, it just sounds rude, but it's just what everybody says. yeah. 0:50:59 - Speaker 3I got it to say that really clear yeah. 0:51:04 - Speaker 5Tim, how long did it take you to say little symetheos when you were over here in Madrid? 0:51:08 - Speaker 4I mean, you know, I've traveled around yeah, yeah, yeah, not long it's a song called every time you go there, I got my hands, the numbers be up, my smile's right in my hands. Every time you go, every time you feel what I see. Every time you go, heart and eye feel me. Well, down here, but I take two kids round the gas like no place. Say the thing is time when things start, The dance, the wilds of charity, no time to rise, to get afraid. They were pissing, pissing, playing a part. She's a lover, a man, a soul, a game of games, Say the door. I'll remain in the corner of your lips And I was made up of my smile. you're both a man. Every time you go, every time you feel what I see. Every time you go, heart and eye feel me And it makes them feel. let me dance through the air to feel Love me, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love. Well, I tell you, every time you go, what I see. Every time you go, heart and eye feel me. Every time you go, every time you go, what I see. Every time you go, heart and eye feel me. Every time you go, heart and eye feel me. Oh gosh. 0:54:37 - Speaker 5Go ahead Tim please. 0:54:39 - Speaker 3I feel like this is just a total hip song. It's got good structure, has awesome drum, backbone beat. I like the chorus ad. Not all their songs have a strong chorus, So I like that aspect of it. It felt like maybe the last quarter of the song felt a little repetitive, like excessively repetitive, Like it just kept going a little bit. But I don't know, man In the Big Snake Pit, it's a song about taking risks, falling in love. What else about it? It's still kind of on the emotional high spectrum to me. But it's a good song. It's a oh. what did I have a note here about? Oh, the drawn out dramatic ending with the vibrato Just becoming a hallmark signature of some of the hip, And I'm just slowly accepting it as one of their things, Because it was really shocking to me on the first EP to hear excessive vibrato. It's like woo Yeah. 0:55:56 - Speaker 5Let's go. I gotta say, gentlemen, this is the only song on the record that literally my notes are. I just it's just nothing. I listened so many times I'm like what the fuck am I missing? And I don't know. It's one of those songs where maybe, hopefully, in a year or two years, and I listen to it and be like dude, yeah, there it is, But I just didn't. it couldn't, it was a sleep placebo, I just didn't do it. I don't know why. 0:56:34 - Speaker 3Well then you should talk about the next one, because I was similar with when the weight comes down. 0:56:41 - Speaker 5Okay, I really liked the structure of the song. I liked the tone of the guitar, One of the things this and well, another one I'll get into But I really think there's a lot of thought put into the guitar tone there. Maybe people I just think at that time people were really obsessed. There wasn't a lot of tricks you could do on things like Logic or Pro Tools or whatever. So whatever was coming out of that speaker was what was going to be on the tape. The guys were like dialing shit in, but the harmonies on when the weight comes down. I think there's talent there, but it just takes away from the meat of the song. If I would and there's other songs on this record where I love the harmonies, but for me that song just it just sounds like maybe just in age Well, I don't know 10 more years. 0:57:48 - Speaker 3I very few notes. I just thought, yeah, it's all right. I thought it was kind of heavy weight comes down, I don't know. 0:57:57 - Speaker 2I didn't. 0:57:58 - Speaker 3at that point I was yearning for something a little bit more different through the tracks which I think I got with the next song. 0:58:05 - Speaker 1Well, that's good, because you're starting to disappoint me here. 0:58:09 - Speaker 3Well, trickle down. I mean Gord's voice. he gets a little more adventurous with going low and high and high and low. There's a kind of a change at a minute and a half where the lyrics pause and you get some actual music, Like he's storytelling a lot through these songs. He's singing, getting to the chorus. The jam keeps going through many songs, but this one there's actually a pause with lyrics and you get some good. you get some good guitar There's like kind of these swing back into the lyrics with guitar. I don't know, I thought that was just better, a better composed song. You know the idea about it. you know being poor, being on welfare, waiting for the check. you know I think it's a song that probably was appealing or easily identifiable across Canada or the US at the time being down and out on your luck financially. I mean, who has not been able to identify with that? So to me it was a pretty great song. This was up there more. 0:59:27 - Speaker 5Well, I trickle down my notes. I wrote half on a paper, half on my phone. Again, guitar tone. I remember one of my first guitar teachers had a Mesa Boogie triple rectifier stack and this guy was obsessed with tone and just very similar like early 90s, late 80s, sort of hair bandy, but just that tone, just there. that's there in that song And this reminded me of like when I was listening to that song I pictured Patrick Swayze. do you know the line in Roadhouse when he goes always be nice till it's time not to be nice. I feel like like I just like I just got that vibe dude, This is a banger, Love it This takes. I feel like the last couple of songs dipped down a little bit for the record. It's a bit of a, of a valley, so to speak, And then it's like man, put your, put your boots on, man, we're going back uphill And this song takes me right back there. 1:00:38 - Speaker 4And I loved it. Love it Same. 1:00:40 - Speaker 2Loved it. 1:00:41 - Speaker 1Yeah. So now that we're uphill and our boots are on, we get. we get what could be. I'm going to tip my hand here and I'm sorry to tip my hand before you guys get to weigh in The 11th track. the last track on this record is on my top 10. Okay, But I don't think it should have been the last track on the record. I think the last track on the record should be another midnight. 1:01:09 - Speaker 4Okay, So I'm going to tip my hand here and I'm sorry to tip my hand before you guys get to weigh in. Okay, So I'm going to tip my hand here and I'm sorry to tip my hand before you guys get to weigh in. So I'm going to tip my hand here and I'm sorry to tip my hand before you guys get to weigh in. I think this was the last track on the record. And the mountains stand high. When the mountains stand high, Can't let us run wild For another midnight, For just another midnight. Perhaps we'll run our election day Pumping hands and kissing all the babies. Ain't no time for a shout of doubt. So maybe is there another way? Or where a storming catalach Racing for a roadblock in the distance, Flashin' by a lifetime in an instance. Can we take it back? Am I is dying? Am I is dying? And the river don't sleep? When the water runs cold And the calender burns And the story unfolds, And the mountains stand high. When the mountains stand high, Can't let us run wild For another midnight. Can we take it back? Can we take it back? Can we take it back? Can we take it back? And the mountains stand high. When the mountains stand high, Can't let us run wild For another midnight, For just another midnight, For just another midnight, For another midnight. 1:05:01 - Speaker 3I'm down. I think opiate it is a. it's just. It left me either wanting to take a break from the hip for a bit and listen to something else Or, like just it was, I was a little stumped. 1:05:14 - Speaker 1Too dark for you, I guess. Well, let's focus on, let's focus on another midnight first then. So where do you, where do you stand on that track? 1:05:27 - Speaker 3I overall yeah, I overall liked it. I don't have a whole lot of notes about it Overall liked it. You know, I thought it fit well in there. There was, as I kind of said about Every time you go, there was a better mix between verse and chorus. you know, with song structure, I love the one lighter that we're all, or we're a stolen Cadillac, Like you know. I'm going to use that. I love that. That just makes me feel the pain of, you know, escape or trying to be better, do better, I don't know. I thought it was a pretty solid track. 1:06:05 - Speaker 5It's funny that line stood out to you. I mean, I noticed it. I love this song, man. I actually would have put this song at the end to close the record too, And I'll give you my thoughts on opiated. but the line that stuck out to me the most was Burning like a cigarette long season. And then the chorus, the core. I don't know if you'd call it the chorus, You'd call it maybe the pre-chorus, because Oh My, He's Dying is the chorus, more or less. I don't know, I don't write songs, I'm not a musician and I don't play one on television. But and the river don't sleep when the rottar one runs cold, That entire stanza, if you will. I don't know if we're going to call it. is it's fucking dude? I mean, that's Grammy. shit, man, That's. Grammy shit, It comes together with the music. so well, I'm like man, that's one of the things that when I listen to this record, I'm like, yeah, why did that band not fucking peak in the US and all over the world? Because that's so good, It's so good. 1:07:19 - Speaker 3I mean, this could have been like a track three. It was just a great song, good momentum, and it just had the makeup for it. 1:07:30 - Speaker 1for me, Yeah, I would have made it a single, for sure. 1:07:33 - Speaker 5Yeah, totally. 1:07:35 - Speaker 1It's a little long 356, but you could probably trim it up a bit, But I wouldn't because it's perfect. But yeah, I think it's a great, I think it's fucking great And it's just making me think. Tim's reaction to this album as a whole at this point is making me come back to the fact that these guys at this point are like 23, 24 years old. This is some dark shit for young men to be documenting And it makes me wonder if that's a reflection of. you know they've been advanced since 84 in Canada. At this point they have a manager. you know they're booking things. They're not just, you know, driving around willy-nilly touring, They're doing full on tours that are planned out and they spent a fuck of a lot of time on the road, And in Canada that's that means driving all night, like to get from city to city. you know you're driving hours you're driving. you know it's like the last song we listen to, Like another midnight, like. I know it's not couched in that way in the song, but you could take it that way because to me, What I'm getting at here is this is a road record, This is a. this is their first record. This is, you know, the EP is almost like those first four Beatles records where they're playing cover songs. They're still doing their garage act, but this is this is it. This is life on the road and all the shit that comes with it. 1:09:20 - Speaker 3So mr Leiden, like that to me, says you know a lot about the songwriting style, But I'm wondering what you think of the songwriting so, yeah, I briefly, you know, looked into Gord songwriting, how he did it, and so much of it led me to believe that he was, or they were, meeting Band, meeting people on the road and hearing these you know tough stories and you know, just Putting those into song, Yeah, that's the only thing I could come up with. he wasn't sitting around To me Making up these stories like they were influenced by something, and that's how a lot of great writers and poets are. like David Berman, I think a lot of what he wrote was about people he connected with at bars, sitting around on a barstool, you know. 1:10:11 - Speaker 1Interesting. Yeah, I'm not sure. What are you thinking there, Pete? 1:10:17 - Speaker 5To be honest with you, I feel What you said, JD, about. you know the darkness for these people, this young, and you know I often think about. you. know the way and Tim can relate to this. JD, You cannot, because, just by virtue of where you were born, you know A lot of the way we view Canada is, you know, and to put it in just the most beautiful terms, It's Snow, it's bears, It's manitoba, It's maple syrup, It's mounted police, everything's jolly, you guys have health care and Everything's grand north of the border, on the roof of the US. you know, in the most simplest terms now, When I look at and in JD this, you and I have talked about funny things like, You know, the show trailer park boys, right, and yes, I'm making a big Canadian reference there, Right, as funny as that show is, Tim, I don't know if you've ever watched it It's not very plenty plenty. Well, you know, as funny as that show is and I love it to my boat, to the core of my bones That reality in Some parts of Canada, you know, we don't view parts of Canada as being like, You know, some really dark, dreary parts of Portland, where you're at, or me being from LA, or Long Beach to me, To be more specific, There are some dark ass parts of Long Beach and it's, you know, That has I don't know what Kingston's like, I don't know where these guys grew up, but I'd have to imagine, you know, being on the road and seeing, being exposed to different, different things had influenced their, their lyrical content to this, to make them go to this really dark place. and Maybe that's why, again, they didn't, they didn't break through to the States. But I think it's all for the better, because I think the art would have suffered had they, had they done so, You know, are they not? Yeah? 1:12:28 - Speaker 1Yeah, Yeah, I'm, I'm interested in that. I mean, definitely the specter of Milhaven lives large for a Kingston er growing up in the 70s, I have to imagine, But I don't know. but I like the idea of the amalgam of their you know roots Combined with all this time on the road, Accounting for that sort of songwriting style. you know what I'm saying. 1:13:00 - Speaker 3It's gotta be why they had a good following in Detroit, you know, Cleveland, New York, All that whole region, because that's like some tough living around there and I in this, this Band, I think resonates with so much of that, so much of that. 1:13:22 - Speaker 1Yeah Well, fellas, That's up to here. There's only one thing left to do in this episode, and And that is for you to pick your playlist song, your MVP of the album, if you will, And let us know what that is. so I don't know. I'm gonna close my eyes and point. 1:13:54 - Speaker 5What are you doing this to me, man? 1:13:56 - Speaker 3I'm just gonna go. yeah, I'll go blow it. I do. I is, that's, you know, like you said, Pete, a sister banger. it got me right, right at the right, at the opening of the gate. 1:14:07 - Speaker 1I wonder if that's where your your view of the album as a whole comes from then as well, or it's influenced by The idea that you know your favorite track is the first track. You know it should get better than that, right, like again, We're talking about song Structure here, not structure Sequencing. you know, like blow it oh is like the perfect song to Open a concert or open an album, but It's also tough to get bigger than that. 1:14:44 - Speaker 3True, I think it we start to with trickle down, or every time you go, definitely every time you go, it just has a A more singable single, you know, on the radio aspect to it. I think I'm just trying to, you know, find What resonates most with me with this band and where I'm gonna see them Stay at, I guess sort of thematically, and how they evolve, you know, and and how I wanted them I maybe subconsciously to evolve, especially on the production side of things that for some did it Gotcha. 1:15:23 - Speaker 1All right cool. How about you Pete? 1:15:27 - Speaker 5It's a tough draw. I mean blow at the high-doh or 30 years old. I mean flip a coin. 1:15:36 - Speaker 1Won't do it. I won't do it, No no, no, it's fine. 1:15:38 - Speaker 5Okay, so I'd say the first track to it, Just it. just. there's the thing that the reason why I'm saying that over 30 years old because I remember listening the first time 30 years old be like And I don't want this the person Who's listening this playlist to start listening and be like You know, I want them to like, just fucking love you, right, You know me, I want them So Holy. but yeah, blow at the high-doh. 1:16:11 - Speaker 1All right. Well, thanks so much for doing this again, fellas. We'll talk again soon, and and We'll keep on getting hip to the hip, Looking forward to it. Thanks, JD pick up your shit. 1:16:34 - Speaker 2Thanks for listening to getting hip to the hip. Please subscribe, share, rate and review the show at getting hip to the hipcom. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at getting hip pot and Join our Facebook group at Facebookcom slash groups slash fully and completely. 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