Today we’re diving into Part 2 of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series. If you haven’t listened to that part 1 yet, I highly recommend that you do so first. It’s linked in the episode brief. For many who take the trip down the UFO rabbit hole, there comes a point where you find yourself asking much bigger questions about reality. It boils down to this:The UFO phenomenon is impossible by every single measure that we use to determine such things, and yet it is. And the existence of the impossible posits that the models that we use to determine what is possible and what isn’t are irretrievably flawed. There is no other logical explanation. Frankly, if UFOs don’t make you question the nature of your reality, you haven’t understood them. In part 1 of this series, we took a closer look at the most fundamental mean-making models that we have starting with the very origins of the universe. And I made the case that very little about this narrative makes any kind of rational sense, and that its only real utility lies in explaining things away without actually explaining them at all. When exposed to the harsh light of objective interrogation, the consensus view of reality quickly dissipates like morning fog. Plato’s Cave has become a touchstone in this podcast because it provides the perfect framework for discussing the process of pursuing this line of questioning. And as we begin to recognize that consensus reality is little more than a shadowplay on the wall, the inevitable questions arise:Where are we? What is this place? And what is the shadowplay meant to conceal?We discussed back in episode 18 in my first interview with James Madden that humans are natural cave builders. All of the greatest achievements of civilization have required that we be able to create shared worldviews and agreed upon meanings for things. It’s our superpower every bit as much as it is our weakness. And I think it’s important to keep in mind that just because we find ourselves in a cave doesn’t necessarily mean that someone put us there. The walls of the cave could be entirely self-created. And yet, when you find yourself tied up in a cave and recognize that the very nature of your reality has been concealed, seemingly intentionally, it’s impossible not to wonder about who your potential captors might be–and about what strange new world might be waiting for you outside its walls. Over the past several years a strange and disturbing idea has been popularized by everyone from futurists to tech billionaires–namely that we are living in a simulation. Could this be the explanation for the strange position in which we find ourselves? Could Plato’s Cave be more than just an allegory? Could what we perceive as our reality actually be our prison?It sounds like the plot of The Matrix, but the more we learn, the more likely this unsettling scenario becomes. Buckle up, because this rabbit hole is going to be a wild ride.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague’s research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM RYAN SPRAGUEBooks by Ryan Sprague:Stories from Somewhere In The SkiesSomewhere In The Skies: A Human Approach To The UFO Phenomenon WebsiteFollow Ryan on TwitterFollow Somewhere In The Skies on TwitterBECOME A PATRONFOR ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE OHIO UFO HERITAGE CONFERENCEPlease contact Jon Horvath at [email protected] THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Avi Loeb. Dr. Loeb was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department of Astronomy from 2011–2020. In June 2020, he was sworn in as a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. And, most relevant to today’s conversation, he is also currently the head of Harvard’s Galileo Project whose mission is the systematic scientific search for evidence of extraterrestrial technological artifacts.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEThe article written by Avi Loeb & Sean Kirkpatrick: Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial PhenomenaFOLLOW THE GALILEO PROJECTWebsiteTwitterCONTACT IN THE DESERTSee Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.Tickets are on sale now: https://contactinthedesert.com/BECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOK|Get a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I’m sure you’ll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato’s Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it’s definitely one of my favorites. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim’s work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.In this episode, we’ll be moving on to Dr. Madden’s latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It’s not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way. Because, in many ways, it’s been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we’re being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we’re trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed. What we’ve needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I’d argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTR"Use my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr."WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFDR. JAMES MADDEN’S WORKThe SubstackArticles Referenced In This Episode:UFO Realism and the Uber-UmweltUnidentified Flying HyperobjectMagonia as HyperobjectThe UFO, Religion, and Our Epistemic VulnerabilityFOLLOW DR. JAMES MADDENWebsiteTwitterOTHER WORK REFERENCEDHyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology after the End of the World (Posthumanities) by Timothy MortonThe Third Table by Graham HarmanThe Will to Power by Friedrich NietzscheThus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for Everyone and No One by Friedrich NietzscheBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today I’m bringing you something really special. A few weeks ago, Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka reached out to connect me with someone she thought I might be interested in interviewing for the podcast. Her name is Dr. Iya Whiteley and she is a space psychologist who is featured in Diana’s upcoming book due out in November entitled, Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences. Given the respect that I have for Diana and her work, her recommendation alone would have been enough for me to say yes. But the more she shared with me about Dr. Whiteley and her work, it became clear to me that this was an interview that I absolutely had to do. This conversation touched me deeply, and I hope it speaks to you the way that it spoke to me.MEET DR. IYA WHITELEYDr. Iya Whiteley is a training developer for Astronauts with a background in Clinical Psychology and Cognitive Engineering. She leverages her skills and expertise, combined with her own insights and experiences as a pilot, skydiver, and scuba diver, to design both equipment and training programmes to improve the performance of highly trained professionals in extreme environments, including military pilots and astronauts.Iya has also worked at the European Astronaut Centre (European Space Agency) in Cologne, Germany and now collaborates with NASA and the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre in Star City, Russia. Since having her own children, Iya has been using her unique skillset to work on laying the groundwork for a universal “Earth language”. To this end, she has designed high contrast black and white visual books for newborns to tap into their full developmental potential and give them the best possible start on our unique planet Earth.MEET DR. DIANA WALSH PASULKADr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview. ___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTR"Use my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr."WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GO TO EPISODE BRIEFDR. IYA WHITELEY LINKSContact Dr. Iya Whiteley [Private Practice Website]Get Dr. Whiteley’s Earth Design Books for BabiesFollow Dr. Iya Whiteley on TwitterDR. DIANA PASULKA LINKSAmerican Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, TechnologyPRE-ORDER: Encounters: Explorations with Extraterrestrial and Other Non-Human Intelligence (Out Nov. 7, 2023)Follow Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka on TwitterBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement