For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Description:What happens after the dream you built your life around ends? In today’s tender and searching conversation, Jen and Amy sit down with acclaimed novelist Ben Markovits to talk about his forthcoming book, The Rest of Our Lives—a story that lingers in the quiet spaces of midlife, marriage, parenting, friendship, and the quiet reckonings that arrive when the future you imagined no longer fits. The book is so spectacular, it has been shortlisted as a finalist for the illustrious Booker Prize. Together, the trio explores what happens when the life you worked toward doesn’t quite deliver what you expected—and how that reckoning ripples through family, intimacy, and identity. Ben speaks honestly about ambition, and the grief of letting go of former selves, while also naming the surprising beauty found in showing up for the people you love in ordinary, unglamorous moments. He and Jen talk about the similarities between the fictional story that he wrote and the real-life account that Jen penned in Awake.  This episode is for anyone standing in the middle of their life, caring for children or parents (or both), wondering how to hold disappointment without becoming hardened—and how to love the life in front of you without pretending it’s easy. It’s a conversation about endurance, tenderness, and the brave, ongoing work of choosing one another as the years keep unfolding. If you’ve ever asked yourself, Is this really it?—and then quietly hoped the answer might still be no, not yet—this one is for you. Thought-provoking Quotes: “The author of Anatomy of a Murder said that writing a novel is like driving on a mountain road late at night. You should know where you're trying to get to, and you should be able to see 30 yards in advance.  I guess I have some sense of where I want to get to and then I spend a lot of time watching the next 30 yards.” – Ben Markovits “I like to write about characters who feel like the place they have made for themselves in the world doesn't totally express their sense of who they are.” – Ben Markovits I love the way you write all the backstories of everything because I'm someone who wants to ask 20 questions about what was the furniture in the in-laws beach house like and how did that shape the family dynamic that he married into? Which if you, if you ask all those questions, you sound a little crazy. But actually, you answered all of my questions as I was reading. – Amy Hardin “At a certain point in marriage, you have your fingerprints all over each other.” – Ben Markovits “I love when characters are human, flawed, curious, confused, just really working out their own story. I'm drawn to stories like that that aren't necessarily tidy.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Rest of Our Lives: A Novel by Ben Markovits – https://amzn.to/4qanlhM The Booker Prizes | Ben Markovits – https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booker-library/authors/ben-markovits Anatomy of a Murder by Robert Traver – https://amzn.to/3YAUTKc Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/4qaARlw Phineas Redux by Anthony Trollope – https://amzn.to/4qiOPSN Starting Out by Ben Markovits – https://www.faber.co.uk/journal/faber-announces-the-acquisition-of-a-new-novel-by-ben-markovits/#:~:text=It%20will%20be%20published%20in,' New York Times – out 12/21 Atlantic Excerpt –  The Rest of Our Lives Book Tour – https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Rest-of-Our-Lives/Ben-Markovits/9781668231562 Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ben-Markovits/250699726 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What if the most faithful thing we could do right now is simply pay attention? In this episode of For the Love, Jen and Amy sit down with theologian, ethics professor, and artist Lee C. Camp for a soulful conversation about the kind of faith that wakes us up to what truly matters. As part of our Wake Up Call series on faith, Lee invites us to slow down and notice the world—our lives, our neighbors, and the beauty that keeps trying to reach us. Together, they explore why paying attention is not a luxury but a spiritual practice—and how our obsession with productivity, planning, and certainty can cause us to miss the most beautiful and formative parts of our lives. Lee reflects on what it means to know ourselves as deeply beloved by God, not because of what we produce but because love is the starting point of a life well lived. This conversation traces the threads of human flourishing and imagination, and asks why beauty—found in art, nature, poetry, and story—often teaches us more about God than arguments ever could. As he often does on his own No Small Endeavor podcast, Lee challenges us to consider what Christians are being called to wake up to in this season: a renewed attention to community, to creation, and to a church that is something we practice together, not merely something we attend. If you’re longing for a faith that feels grounded, spacious, and alive—one that helps you live a good life in the world you actually inhabit—this episode is a gentle, necessary wake-up call. Thought-provoking Quotes: “What Christianity most needs right now is to rediscover the basics of the beautiful story which we claim to believe.” – Lee C. Camp The model of the cross means that if we take up our cross and follow Christ, that we can expect difficulty because so much of human history doesn't want that kind of way. Religious powers don't want that. Imperialist powers don't want that. And so we can trust that we're going to have our own kind of crosses to bear along the way. And yet that life has triumphed over death. That love has triumphed over hatred. that beauty and truth and goodness has triumphed over hostility and ugliness and meanness. And so that's the big story.” – Lee C. Camp I deeply understand why a lot of people just can't believe all this [religious] stuff. But for me, it, the story at its best. is so beautiful that I don't know why everybody doesn't want to believe it, even if they can't believe it. It's this place  we embody this narrative, embody this beauty, embody this brokenness in which we try to find tangible ways to do life together.” – Lee C. Camp Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen Hatmaker on Lee Camp’s No Small Endeavor podcast | Jen Hatmaker: When Everything Breaks: Grief, Growth, and Human Flourishing – https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/jen-hatmaker-when-everything-breaks-grief-growth-and-human-flourishing No Small Endeavor Podcast – https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/ Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Pastor on War, Hope, and Love –https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/munther-isaac-palestinian-christian-pastor-on-war-hope-and-love Munther Isaac Sermon | Christ in the Rubble – youtube.com/watch?si=zK8OKK_xGMZR64ZD&v=ZPTrmN6Dzmw&feature=youtu.be Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.leeccamp.com/home Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/LeeCCamp Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/leeccamp Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2Rk2D2fHz5mzmJT8G-x9uO5kyhQiU1N2 Podcast - https://www.nosmallendeavor.com/ The Subtext Podcast – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-subtext/id1835471106 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:As we close out the year, we wanted to do something a little different—and a little more tender. In this special end-of-year episode of For the Love, we’re turning the mic over to you. Over the past months, your voicemails have poured in, telling the story of what it’s been like to read Awake: the unraveling, the naming, the grief, the relief, the courage, the slow return to yourself. The messages were so honest and so resonant that we knew we needed to play some of them back—not just to honor the people who shared them, but to remind anyone listening in a similar space that they are not alone. We’ve woven these voices together in four acts, tracing the arc so many of us recognize. Act I — “The Moment Everything Broke” We hear from Nadine, Allison, and Sharon about the before-and-after moments: marriages ending, bodies shamed, the deep wounds of purity culture, and the rupture that comes when the life you were living can no longer hold. Act II — “Finding Language for the Ache” Paulette and Inez share what it means to finally name what couldn’t be named before—untangling attachment and codependence, wrestling with faith, Jesus, and the pain of church rupture, and discovering words for a long-held ache. Act III — “Coming Back to Ourselves” With Kelly and Laura, we witness what healing can look like in motion: reclaiming agency, inhabiting our bodies again, joy returning, learning to cherish yourself, embracing life, committing to therapy, finding community, and being truly seen. Act IV — “Witnessing a Life Over Time” Tracy closes us out with the long view—what it means to trust the slow arc of a life, to be held in shared history, and to witness change unfolding over time. If something in you woke up this year—even painfully—you’re not behind. You’re right on time. And you are certainly not alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Here’s to cherishing ourselves. We have so much to cherish.” – Kelly, For the Love listener “If you’re willing to believe a voice from the future who has been sitting exactly where you are sitting…There is something after this story, even though you can't see that, something good is still coming for you.” – Jen Hatmaker “Everyone's experience can be a lantern to someone else.” – Amy Hardin “This is how it goes. This is how people are inspired and moved. This is how we lend courage to one another by saying our things out loud. And that is literally how my life moved. I listened to other people who were saying their thing out loud and I just was just sitting there quietly listening, going, I wonder if this is something I could consider.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker – https://amzn.to/44U2DuL Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie – https://amzn.to/48UTYcn Jen Hatmaker Book Club – https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club?srsltid=AfmBOooHcTDRzkwfxjaozkEQyYWtFpthqUtOcFwOOiSYTqO7fCTbaEsb Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s guest, Suleika Jaouad, first captured our collective hearts with her searing memoir Between Two Kingdoms — a book that traced her diagnosis of leukemia, the brutal treatment that followed, and the long, complicated journey of coming home to herself again. It was a Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection back in March 2023, and it has stayed with so many of us. Suleika is an Emmy Award–winning journalist, bestselling author, speaker, and artist whose work asks some of the biggest questions humans ever face: What does it mean to live when life has been shattered? How do we hold hope and devastation at the same time? What does healing actually look like when recovery isn’t linear, or even guaranteed? She is also the founder of The Isolation Journals, a global creative community of more than 100,000 writers, artists, and curious souls who use storytelling and imagination as tools for transformation. Her latest book, The Book of Alchemy, feels is a continuation of her journey — filled with essays, prompts, and reflections from over 100 contributors across disciplines. It’s an invitation to explore how we turn pain into meaning, uncertainty into beauty, and our lives into art. Suleika speaks so generously about what it means to live in the middle — between diagnosis and remission, despair and joy, isolation and connection — and how storytelling helps us metabolize what we’ve lived through. Whether you’re a writer, an artist, someone who’s walking through your own valley, or simply trying to make sense of your story, this episode will speak to you.  Thought-provoking Quotes: There is no right or wrong way to journal. There are no rules. You don’t have to be a good writer. I think it's why journaling appeals to me so much. – Suleika Jaouad I really try to make the journal a sacred space where I get to be my most unedited, most chaotic self. – Suleika Jaouad When I'm not trying to be efficient or productive is when I often end up having my best ideas because I’m not controlling, I'm not pushing, I'm not muscling my way through. – Suleika Jaouad When I stop making certainty or perfection the goal, it releases me from measuring myself against how far I am from that goal. And I get to be more present in what's happening now. – Suleika Jaouad Resources Mentioned in This Episode: American Symphony documentary on Netflix – https://www.netflix.com/title/81728930 The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/3KPqWTD The Art of Survival | In living with cancer, Suleika Jaouad has learned to wrench meaning from our short time on Earth by Jennifer Senior | The Atlantic – https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/suleika-jaouad-writer-health-cancer/678210/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted by Suleika Jaouad – https://amzn.to/48KO9y5 The Isolations Journals on Substack – https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Jon Batiste – https://www.jonbatiste.com/ Piano for Super Bowl LIX 2025 – https://noma.org/exhibitions/jaouad-batiste-piano/#exhibition-works Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.suleikajaouad.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/suleikajaouad/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/SuleikaJaouadPage Substack - https://theisolationjournals.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this live, wide-ranging conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by bestselling author and civic educator Sharon McMahon (Sharon Says So) for an honest, funny, and deeply grounding discussion about truth, courage, faith, and what it means to stay awake in uncertain times. Beginning with Sharon joining Jen on stage, the two explore everything from dating after divorce and the wisdom of grandmothers, to how fear and misinformation shape our public life. They reflect on history as a guide, the importance of joy as resistance, and why living fully—especially in anxious seasons—is not a betrayal of others’ suffering. Jen also shares hard-won insight about friendship in midlife, faith after certainty, and the real cost of telling the truth. Together, Jen and Sharon remind us that while waking up is disruptive, staying asleep costs more—and that we don’t have to navigate this moment alone. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You are not helping anybody by being paralyzed in a state of fear and joylessness.”— Sharon McMahon “There have been people who came before us who lived through so much—and they left their lanterns on the path.” — Sharon McMahon “You do not owe the world a state of paralyzation and fear.”— Sharon McMahon  “One friend can love you back to life. One is enough.” — Jen Hatmaker “Too hard is living asleep at the wheel.”— Jen Hatmaker  “I don’t see good fruit from this tree.”  — Jen Hatmaker  “God is not constrained to a building. I didn’t lose Jesus.” — Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode:                  ➢ Awake by Jen Hatmaker ➢ Me Talk Pretty One Day by David Sedaris ➢ The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan ➢ Works by Anne Lamott ➢ Harriet Tubman (historical reference) Guest’s Links: Sharon’s Website– https://sharonmcmahon.com/  Sharon’s Instagram –  https://www.instagram.com/sharonsaysso Sharon’s Substack –  https://thepreamble.com/ Sharon’s Podcast – https://sharonmcmahon.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices