Good Fire

• Fire In Our DNA with Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo Robbins

  Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrityFire In Our DNA with Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo RobbinsEpisode highlightIn this episode, Elizabeth Azzuz and Margo Robbins talk about restoring cultural fire in their tribal territory and across the world.ResourcesCultural Fire Management CouncilElizabeth AzzuzMargo RobbinsThe California Endowment: Building Healthy CommunitiesIndigenous Peoples Burning Networkhttps://www.elementalfilm.com/“Firelighters: Fire is Medicine” movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AskCYsXWKpA&t=1sSponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes05.06 - 5.27: “Fire has an amazing effect on not just the land and the health of the land and the resources that it produces but it is in fact a way to bring health back to our communities.” 05.57 - 06.07: “Fire is one of the ways to reconnect us to the land around us and our ancestors and our cultural lifeways.” 19.00 - 19.05: “It seems like, oftentimes, women are the movers and shakers in the community.” TakeawaysMeet Elizabeth Azzuz (1.45)Elizabeth Azzuz is a Yurok Tribe member, a descendent of the Karuk Tribe and has ties to the Metis Nation as well. She began burning at age 4 when her grandfather decided to teach her after watching her play with matches. She’s always loved what fire can do to restore the environment and provide food, medicine and basket materials. She takes great joy in training younger generations to carry this knowledge forward. Meet Margo Robbins (02.57)Margo Robbins is the executive director of Cultural Fire Management Council (CFMC) and is a member of the Yurok Tribe. As a basket weaver, she saw the tradition dying out because of regulations preventing cultural burning on their land, which is required to reproduce new single shoots of hazel needed for weaving the frames of baskets. She was about to become a grandmother and wanted her grandchildren to be carried in traditional baskets. So, she conveyed this to The California Endowment.Loss of cultural identity (04.32)As a CFMC cofounder, Margo realized that many young Indigenous people are losing their connection to their identity as Yurok people, which manifests in unhealthy behaviours like using drugs and alcohol. She emphasizes that working with fire is in their DNA as a people and their true calling. Before working in fire, she worked in the school system and used to include information on fire in her lessons as well. Now her focus is on restoring the land and helping other tribal people reclaim their fire traditions as well.“We didn’t take no for an answer” (07.44)Margo marvels at how the fire-creation stories of many different tribes have a lot in common. Margo had just finished her first burn in CFMC when she met Elizabeth who also expressed interest in joining. She narrates the story of how CFMC came to be, and how they have worked to make cultural burning possible now. They knew the dangers of fuel buildup and so recruited volunteers, developed a partnership with Nature Conservancy and conducted community training sessions to be allowed to burn. Dual win (12.45)After several years of burning on a volunteer basis, CFMC finally received a million-dollar wildfire prevention grant through CAL FIRE in 2019. With limited burn windows and specific burn schedules, they also did home protection and roadside clearance to provide full-time jobs to the employees. They chose places rich in cultural resources to burn so that they could provide “important cultural resources for the community while also providing wildfire protection in an area that is rated as extremely high fire risk”.“A place that will be ours” (15.00)Elizabeth shares that they recently purchased 140 acres for CFMC, a unit they have burned on a few times before, which is also close to Margo’s home. She is excited about the possibility of the first Indigenous fire training facility in California. Having their own space means they don’t have to borrow Tribal facilities, and they can bring on more staff. The two buildings that the property comes with have been assigned for training and parking fire engines, respectively. Comfort in their territory (17.56)Elizabeth believes the longevity and stability of the organization come from the women in the tribal community, evident in the common thought processes shared in the board meeting conversations. Margo quips about how they have had to shift gears many times to bring the training center dream to fruition. They built CFMC based on learnings from other organizations but created partnerships and terminology to cater to the needs and sensibilities of the Yurok people specifically. “Happy and joyful” (23.23)It makes Elizabeth happy to see the organization grow and expand in a natural way. Margo explains how they balance the needs of the government along with those of the tribes in doing a cultural burn. CFMC has created a seat at the decision-making table on prescribed fire, so they can share the cultural and ecological importance of burning. Margo ensures that the protocols and lines of command for safety don’t diminish their joy in working together with fire. Putting medicine on the ground (26.58)Margo points out that neither CALFIRE nor the US Forest Service lead their burns, and CFMC upholds the culture of the tribes in conducting the burn. Elizabeth adds that when they do a test fire, they open up their training with a prayer, asking permission from the land, animals, people, and the environment to restore their land, which sets the tone for the burn. Margo finishes the prayer with a song, which moves many people to tears. Passing on the torch (30.14)Elizabeth talks about CFMC’s Our Family Burns Program, which helps “Elders, single families, and community members create a space for themselves”. They teach the families to clear around their homes, create piles, and burn safely. Elizabeth finds it heartwarming to hear young people wanting to learn this to protect their family’s property. Including young students in their training is important to teach them to care for their environment and be safe. Playing with fire (33.33)Margo recalls when a wildfire started across her house many years ago, which traumatized her grandchildren. However, not wanting her grandchildren to be afraid of fire, she asked if they would like to burn with her. They went out into her yard, and she taught them about how fire works and how to burn safely using a little briar patch. They now have participated in 5-6 burns. She finds that since kids play with fire anyway, “it’s important for them to learn the responsible use of fire”. “Unbalanced fir tree domination” (39.29)Margo highlights that Douglas fir is native to their homelands and has a spiritual significance in ceremonies and dances. However, the ban on cultural burning and logging companies replanting fir trees densely caused a proliferation of fir trees and unbalanced the ecosystem. She uses fire to maintain that balance and to keep the grass healthy for human and non-human animals. Elizabeth laments that large logging industries use chemicals that poison water bodies and affect the health of the people.Fighting on the planet’s side (43.21)Elizabeth observes that Indigenous peoples who live in rural areas notice more in the environment than those in the cities and are more driven to fight the organizations destroying what they need to survive. Margo celebrates that using medical records of the cancerous effects of aerial sprays and providing alternatives to the toxins was successful in stopping them. They are in the process of negotiating air quality permits to allow them to increase the pace and scale of cultural burns to combat wildfires.We’re all in this together (49.18)Elizabeth discovered what is needed to get everyone on board with culture burning when developing her relationship with Humboldt County’s Air Quality division. Informing them of when they will burn, for how long and how much helps people become comfortable with the smoke. Even though tribal entities have sovereign rights and don’t have to comply with district policies, building those bridges and networks allows people to prepare, like turning on air purifiers in Elders’ homes.Normalizing cultural burning smoke (53.36)Margo shares that an ‘exceptional events’ accommodation can be applied to cultural fire smoke, but it is an in-depth process, so they are still advocating for the smoke to be considered baseline by the California Air Resources Board. She notes that the American Lung Association is part of one of the beneficial fire policy groups she is part of, and they support prescribed burns smoke. Elizabeth mentions information comparing prescribed burning smoke to wildfire smoke. Reintroducing elk to the territory (56.50)Elizabeth tells the story of how one of the previous board members had a dream of reintroducing elk onto the land for his grandchildren. With the burns they have been doing, historic pathways have opened up for elk to travel from the coast into the Karuk territory. The Elders are excited to see elk there again and to be able to find ruminating deer who have become healthy after fire has created healthy food for them.Inviting porcupines (59.35)Margo is looking forward to bringing back porcupines onto the land since their quills were used as the yellow in their baskets and as regalia. They were killed by the forest service because they were eating fir. Elizabeth remembers collecting their quills in her childhood, and it was frightening for her to see them disappearing. However, many species are coming back to the territory due to cultural burning, and it helps them plan more burns based on the patterns of returning species. Fire programs that encompass cultural burning (01.04.00)The Indigenous Peoples Burning Network was initiated by The Nature Conservancy, who met cultural fire practitioners from the Yurok, Karuk, and Hoopa Tribes to ask if they wanted to reclaim their traditional burn practices. While they had been burning for a while, it had not been in true traditional ways, so they decided to create a Yurok Karuk Hoopa Healthy Country Plan. Basket weavers from each tribe participated and proved the success of the burn by how much hazel they could gather after. Smoke signals (1.09.56)Margo knows about burning on her territory, but tribes from flat grasslands burn differently and adapt the process to fit their homeplace and their needs. When Elizabeth and Margo began doing online presentations on the benefits and necessity of reclaiming fire, they became extremely popular amongst tribes from all over. That exposure brought support from six different philanthropic groups and foundations, securing their financial basis to continue to do this work.Spreading the word (1.16.01)Elizabeth was invited to speak on a podcast and then received an email from the State Department asking her to speak on cultural fire in Greece, where it’s illegal to burn but the government overlooks it because farmers refuse to stop burning, so they can protect their farms. The audience there was happy to hear her speak about loving fire and its benefits when others are afraid of fire. She believes it will take “the entire population of the world to make this happen and for us to be able to restore the environment”. Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected] you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

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• The Power of Fire and Memory with Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille

  The Power of Fire and Memory with Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille Episode highlightIn this episode, Lisa Shepherd and Paul Courtoreille share personal memories and cultural insights into fire’s role within Métis traditions. From childhood experiences to modern applications, they discuss fire's ability to connect communities, heal the land, and preserve Métis heritage.ResourcesLisa ShepherdMétis Nation of AlbertaParks Canada Indigenous ConnectionsMétis CrossingRocky Mountain House National Historic Site SponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes1.07.33 - 1.07.09: “In order for us to gain back that which was almost disappeared, we need to be able to live in our truth, which… means… being able to recognize the land is in us... it’s where we come from, it’s what we are made up of.”TakeawaysA Journey to Reclaim Language and Culture (4.33)Lisa introduces herself, acknowledging her Métis and Italian heritage. While she didn’t grow up speaking Cree, she is now learning it to reclaim her cultural roots. Lisa expresses the importance of integrating language into daily life, not just for herself but for her children and future generations. This reconnection is part of her broader goal as a Métis artist to revitalize cultural practices and traditions lost due to colonization.Childhood Memories of Cultural Burns (6.14)Lisa shares a childhood memory of participating in a cultural burn at four years old. She vividly describes walking alongside the fire, stepping on flames, and watching it roll across the grass. This moment stands out as a formative experience, showing the unity of her community and fire’s life-giving role. Paul adds his perspective, recalling how fire was integral to his family’s life for ceremonies, cooking, and traditional healing, as taught by his grandfather, a medicine man.Fire as the “Little Fire Within Us” (8.14)Paul describes fire as part of all life, comparing it to the mitochondria within our cells that produce energy. He reflects on his upbringing in the Gift Lake Métis Settlement, where fire was central to both practical and spiritual life. He emphasizes how deeply fire is connected to the Métis worldview, symbolizing energy, connection, and renewal.Language and Fire’s Cultural Connection (11.19)Paul explores linguistic ties between Cree words and fire, explaining how the language reflects fire’s cultural significance. While Cree lacks root words, its descriptive nature ties fire to various concepts and practices, deepening its role within Métis traditions.Displacement and the Loss of Knowledge (15.44)Lisa discusses the historical displacement of Métis people from Jasper National Park in 1907. This forced removal disrupted traditional practices, cutting off communities from their land and cultural knowledge. She recounts efforts by Parks Canada to reconnect with Indigenous communities and foster truth-telling about these historical injustices. Lisa highlights the complex expectations placed on Métis people, who are often expected to retain Indigenous knowledge despite the colonial disruptions that made it difficult to do so.Fire as the Heartbeat of the Community (19.14)Lisa reflects on the metaphorical “fire in the belly” that drives Métis people to reclaim their traditions and language. She emphasizes that humans are not separate from nature but deeply intertwined. Connecting with the land and engaging in cultural practices helps restore this sense of unity and well-being.Including Children in Fire Practices (25.45)Lisa shares how her son participated in a recent cultural burn, documenting the experience through photography. She notes the importance of involving children in fire practices to demystify its role and teach them how fire can renew and heal the land. Lisa believes that hands-on experiences help children understand the responsibility and respect required when working with fire.Watching Fire Come to Life (28.50)Lisa describes how observing the movements of fire during a cultural burn, including the spiralling patterns of smoke, deepened her appreciation for its spirit and vitality. These firsthand experiences, she explains, cannot be replicated through imagination alone—they require presence and connection to the land.Revitalizing Practices Through Art and Storytelling (33.00)Lisa speaks about creating a children’s book that teaches the sacred relationship between fire and land. The project began with an image of a rabbit she envisioned during a brainstorming session. Through intricate beadwork and storytelling, she sought to illustrate fire’s positive role while ensuring the book remained engaging and accessible for children.The Challenges of Fire Stewardship Today (39.16)Paul reflects on his experience as a trapper and his deep understanding of the land and its interconnected ecosystems. He shares how modern practices and environmental changes, such as diminishing food sources for muskrats, have impacted traditional ways of life. Lisa emphasizes the importance of recognizing fire’s relationship with water and its role in supporting diverse ecosystems, from muskrats to dragonflies.Addressing Children’s Fears About Fire (43.34)Lisa highlights the importance of teaching children about fire responsibly to reduce fear and empower them with knowledge. She contrasts the destructive imagery of wildfires often portrayed in media with the nurturing role of controlled burns. By guiding children through these lessons, she hopes to foster a deeper connection to the land and a respect for fire’s role in Métis culture.The Urgency of Passing Down Knowledge (1:03:29)Paul emphasizes the critical need to pass traditional fire knowledge to younger generations. He recalls how cultural burns were once an annual practice in his community, highlighting the importance of acting before this knowledge is lost. Lisa echoes this sentiment, stressing that opportunities to teach and practice these traditions must be preserved to ensure Métis culture thrives.Fire as a Sacred Connection to Land (1:06:46)Lisa closes by reflecting on her deep connection to the land, describing it as an intrinsic part of her identity. She emphasizes that reclaiming Métis traditions requires acknowledging this relationship and creating space to live in alignment with cultural truths.Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected] you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too. Rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or other podcast platforms. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky, and Facebook and tag a friend!

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• Survivorship into Thrivorship with Ryan Reed

  Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integritySurvivorship into Thrivorship with Ryan ReedEpisode highlightIn this episode, Ryan Reed talks about how the younger generations are leading the way into the future with a move away from fire suppression and into fire generation to protect the environment.ResourcesRyan ReedFireGeneration CollaborativeFirefighters United for Safety, Ethics and EcologyON FIRE: The Report of the Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management CommissionModernizing Wildfire Safety and Prevention Act of 2024SponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes13.12 - 13.32: “We can't create something without including or… centering around Indigenous communities as… there are so many statistics that point towards Indigenous communities or management in the Indigenous hands really shows a profound impact… not only just for the landscape but for the communities who depend on those landscapes.”30.18 - 30.29: “It’s really to show other folks… how important it is to… know who you are and where you come from and how… important that is to be proud of that.”58.07 - 58.20: “We’re a generation that we’re proud to be Indigenous… and our ancestors never had that opportunity to be proud of who they are and so it’s a responsibility of ours… to carry on with that.”TakeawaysMeet Ryan Reed (02.33)Ryan grew up on Karuk land, but is from the Karuk, Hupa and Yurok tribes in Northern California, and grew up immersed in different ceremonies and traditional cultural practices. He cherishes and values being part of the country, the community and the ceremonies. He completed his undergraduate degree from the University of Oregon and is currently pursuing a postgraduate degree in Forestry at UC Berkeley.“The closest truth on earth is our ceremonies” (04.27)Ryan used to be a wildland firefighter for the US Forest Service but decided to step away from fire suppression. He is also honoured to be a Karuk medicine person who comes from a long lineage of medicine people. He grew into learning the role and significance of fire in his community to manage resources and ceremonies. He looks forward to rejuvenating and revitalizing cultural practices to share their benefits and uphold the responsibilities to the earth.Creating pathways for younger generations (07.25)Ryan translates policies with the help of colleagues and friends to help create space and awareness of how Indigenous people can lead the way. Ryan is most proud of being the cofounder and program director of FireGeneration Collaborative, an organization that empowers marginalized and younger generations within fire policy with Indigenous leadership at the forefront to find climate solutions. They have spoken to government decision-makers to generate conversations and include youth. Living in reciprocity (13.33)Ryan’s life reflects the impact of living in reciprocity, and he works to bring Indigenous people and marginalized non-Indigenous people on the frontlines of the climate crisis or wildfire issues together to build a paradigm-shifting coalition. He has received funding and support to invest in creating spaces to change policies with younger generations who want to fight the discrimination and cultural erasure of Indigenous communities in the white male-dominated fire suppression world. “Enough is enough” (16.40)Ryan shares how his generation has decided to take matters into their own hands and look into the future, “not for just the generations, but also the non-human souls and entities we have on our landscapes”. Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics and Ecology sponsors his work and he finds that organic connections made in the fire world, especially mentors, help overcome the growing pains of running the organization and cultivating their position in this space.Modernizing wildfire safety (20.17)Ryan is heavily involved as a committee member in the Northwest Forest Plan and is proud of the role FireGeneration played in conversations with the Wildland Fire Commission to share their perspectives, language and policy recommendations, which focus on empowering younger generations through education. To have the space and access to increase awareness in the early days is inspiring for younger generations to streamline their focus.Feeding the mind, body and soul with a traditional diet (23.37)“Growing up in a community that was socioeconomically deprived but culturally wealthy, we had a lot of knowledge and understanding of how our culture meshed with concepts of sustainability and holistic management of ecosystem services”, Ryan notes, but Indigenous people have not received the benefits of the advocacy they do to protect the environment for the benefit of all. He hopes to see a move from the environmental destruction his parents’ generation saw to sustainability in his communities.Intergenerational trauma (28.49)Ryan believes in “being proud of who you are and where you come from… and continuously learning about yourself, especially in intergenerational trauma”. He acknowledges that those who lived through the residential schools' era were deprived of life happiness and how that transmits through generations. His ancestors did not have the opportunity to talk about cultural fire the way he does, so he wants to empower others to vocalize, even though it is a difficult skill to practice in a tough space.Lessons from fire (33.21)Ryan encourages other Indigenous people to recognize their abilities and intelligence and not discredit themselves in Western spaces, because cultivating the teachings from the ancestors and Elders will help structure that wisdom and create a bridge to success. However, he recognizes that many lessons are learned the hard way, especially when it comes to fire. He shares how he learned about the role of the US Forest Service at home and in school and the ways they use fire or suppress it compared to his home.“A profound sense of change-making that needs to happen in social dynamics” (38.43)Ryan laments that the combination of intergenerational trauma, limiting policies and wildfire damage saw him get into fire suppression. His understanding of fire suppression, the motivations of people who work in it and the restrictive and unintentionally oppressive system they work under informs his work today as an Indigenous fire practitioner. Colonial settlers disrespected and underestimated the impact of fire on the landscape. Wildland firefighters suffer in silence (44.34)Ryan explains that the lifestyle of wildland firefighters is extremely underrepresented and misunderstood, which he discovered only when he began working as one. There is a lack of mental health support along with the physical demands of the job, and the toxic masculinity that prevents them from changing this. He believes “everyone deserves an adequate workplace dynamic and environment” and is working towards shedding light on these issues in the industry. Man enough (49.41)Ryan is learning to know when to step back and be a good ally for Indigenous women so that he doesn’t shadow their wisdom. He finds the concept of masculinity has been morphed and manipulated in today’s patriarchal society by settler colonialism but needs to be reframed as being able to take care of the community and the people and to step back so others who have more knowledge can step into leadership positions. This includes educating oneself on others’ vulnerabilities and access issues.Going back to matriarchal societies (52.19)Ryan talks about how the materialistic characteristics of fire suppression negatively impact and harm others, especially being a white male-dominated industry. However, he is happy to see more Indigenous women and non-binary folks breaking down barriers and emerging as leaders in cultural fire practice and considers it a privilege to learn from them. He talks about coming from a matriarchal community but “the white man’s agenda” disrupted those social dynamics. Fire teaches how to treat other life elements.Fire suppression is not working (56.43)Ryan points out how the next generation is actively seeking a new solution because suppressing fire is not working. FireGeneration is creating a social transformation movement, talking about the matriarchal component of Indigenous ideology and taking pride in their culture. It is difficult to undo “the very violent and oppressive norms that we have been handed through elements like genocide, colonial erasure, Indigenous and cultural erasure and as well as the boarding school eras”, he says.There’s enough space (59.40)Ryan admits that even though he is Indigenous, being a heterosexual male means he has privileges, and he works to understand how to create space for those who don’t, uplift their voices and find where he fits in that space. “The point of prioritizing women in these spaces isn’t to deprioritize men, it’s to create space”, he observes. Undoing colonial harms helps us understand cultural fire and the natural environment as well.Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected] you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too. Rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or other podcast platforms. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky, and Facebook and tag a friend!

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• Indigenous Wisdom in Climate Care with Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda Adams

  Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew KristoffStories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrityIndigenous Wisdom in Climate Care with Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda AdamsEpisode highlightIn this episode, Rachael Cavanagh and Melinda Adams talk about the role of Indigenous fire stewards in managing climate change.ResourcesRachael CavanaghMelinda M.AdamsSolastalgia to Soliphilia: Cultural Fire, Climate Change, and Indigenous HealingON FIRE: The Report of the Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management CommissionIndigenous Fire Data Sovereignty: Applying Indigenous Data Sovereignty Principles to Fire ResearchSponsorsCanada WildfireIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes20.51 - 20.56: “Our law is still in the land and it’s in all of the stories that have been passed down to us by our Elders.” 40.27 - 41.08: “It comes back to our relationship. Us as First Nations people or Indigenous people, we have a very respectful relationship with fire, but then if you look at non-Indigenous people… everything is from fear… If you look at the language they use, it’s… suppression and it’s firefighting and… all of their language is based around reactionary responses whereas if you talk to Indigenous people across the globe, it’s all about care. We come from a place of care and guardianship, and this is our obligation.” Takeaways“Cultural obligations as guardians and custodians” (03.19)Rachael Cavanagh is a Minjungbal woman from the Bundjalung/Yugambeh Nations of South East Queensland and Northern New South Wales. Rachael’s family name means ‘the wind’, and she runs a consulting business working with First Nations people across Australia to change the narrative around caring for the land using First Nations-led cultural environmental practices. She plays a large role in “bringing back cultural fire practices as well as reintroducing women as the caretakers of our waterways”. Her work also involves bringing children along, and is the cultural curriculum creator of the first bilingual school in New South Wales which will be a fully cultural immersion school. “How to be a better relative, good human and good ancestor” (06.10)Melinda is a member of the N’dee San Carlos Apache Tribe in what is present-day Arizona and is an Assistant Professor at the University of Kansas. She got her PhD from the University of California, Davis, where she spent a lot of time with cultural fire practitioners and continues to do so in the second year of her work. She believes that all Indigenous people have a relation with fire, whether historical or through reclaiming practices now. She is very vocal about how Western science is only now catching up with the ecological benefits of cultural fire practices, and gives a platform to others to voice their climate plans.Culture and caring for country (10.24)Fire for Racheal’s community is the role of the matriarch, so she has always taken her daughters along for cultural burns. Her older daughter can now independently lead a burn. “We live in a society where our kids still have to maintain the Western ways of doing things”, she laments, but her family prioritizes cultural burning to care for the land as much as she does, even when the education system doesn’t understand why children must lead the solutions. Inclusivity of several generations (13.44)Melinda’s son would accompany her on burns in California and would learn from Elder practitioners. California is a fire rich place and her son belongs to a tribe native to California, so she moved here to help him establish a connection with his lineage. However, burn windows are changing and it is important to have a commitment to the land so Elders and children can be invited out to the land to care for it. “This is a generation that is going to pay the consequence of a lot of climate decisions that were made without them in mind”, she notes.Breaking colonial constructs (17.44)Rachael explains how women were rarely seen in the broader fire network of 250 tribes revitalizing cultural fire practices in Australia. Different tribes have subgroups that have different law systems, protocols and processes around fire, but more women have been coming along to a point where women-only workshops are organized to make them feel culturally safe to have conversations and share fire stories. This helped the women see their role in the cultural fire practices. She feels lucky to have had her female ancestors teach her about fire as cultural and environmental.The environment is our kin (23.40)Rachael observes that even though fire is the key to bring together, it’s the conversations that heal. They share knowledge and stories, and discuss specific solutions. The 2019-2020 fires in Australia have been an added impetus to advocate for putting people back in the forests, which Indigenous people have been advocating for since colonization. While the government is still resistant, localized partnerships are helping shift from the western firefighter system. However, it is still more about Black participation than about cultural leadership. More women stepping into leadership roles will benefit the entire community. “Our spirit of health is tied to our time on the land and our time with one another” (27.53)Melinda shares an article written to explain academic terms around fire, public mental health and climate mentality around catastrophic events. The article explores how cultural fire pushes back against solastalgia, climate grief experienced when one’s homelands are devastated through climate change. She credits Indigenous people in so-called California with managing the loss through wildfires with decades of determined work on the land and training others to safely steward cultural fire. This leads to soliphilia, which eases solastalgia regarding climate change and wildfire.Taking care of country as a generational responsibility (30.25)Melinda recognizes that while catastrophic climate change can’t be controlled, learning about tribal histories and the effects of colonization and having some agency on what one can do on the land helps to protect it against climate change impacts. She works with Indigenous and non-Indigenous students to educate them and mitigate their climate anxiety feelings by having them work on the land. Cultural fire is different than controlled fire because it situates Indigenous people in the position of power, so she uses the term ceremonial burns to invite allies into the work while signalling an Indigenous-centeredness.Denying Indigenous rights continues all over the world (33.25) Rachael struggles with the cultural appropriation in workshops that she extends to non-Indigenous people, because they do not understand the terms being used or the ceremony around it, and use token Black participation as their justification. She reinforces the importance of Indigenous people leading ceremonial burns since it is their cultural responsibility. The 2019-2020 fires increased fire insurance so much that it has now become a barrier, and rules have been applied around how people can gain economically from cultural Indigenous practices, which disadvantages those who rely on them.Love Mother Earth as your mother (38.27)Melinda acknowledges how stressful and seasonal it is to work in wildland fire, and how difficult it is to change an agency from a fire suppression mindset to get support and funding for getting good fire on the ground. Rachael points out that the funding always goes to the reactionary perspective, but if that funding went into Indigenous fire stewards, there wouldn’t be a need to fight fire. It is important to expand the definition of assets protected in a fire to include the environmental and cultural assets too. Indigenous people use a different language to talk about fire which includes planning for the future.Community and care (45.30)As life givers, Indigenous women care for fire and the land differently from male counterparts that are bringing fire back, Melinda says. Her hope is to invite etymologists who are studying the earth and its conservation, since certain insects find the environment more inviting after a cultural burn (also called cool burn). She highlights the importance of returning what is collected from the land to prevent the destructiveness of the research. Rachael finds it harder to ground men into cultural spaces because they enjoy the adrenaline of chasing wildfire, whereas women come from a nurturing space for the land. Paving the way into the future (51.49)Melinda is happy to see the momentum around amplifying cultural fire, but reiterates that Indigenous people need to be the ones leading the work and setting the agenda and timelines since they come from a place of protecting the land and community. By centering cultural fire and protection of fire knowledge, interesting pathways to science are unearthed which help actualize the principles of discovering solutions while caring for people and the land. Developing partnerships with different tribes and using AI in fire tech will build a better fire metric while preserving traditional ecocultural knowledge.Building true partnerships (57.17)Rachael will continue advocating for law reform in First Nations fire practices and access to land, building localized partnerships to rally people from the bottom up and pushing for First Nations people to be leaders in the climate movement. Australians need to include the principles, protocols and processes to engage Indigenous communities meaningfully, so she runs workshops and lectures to teach them about developing respect and filling the gaps in the understanding of cultural ways of knowing and being. She is also using creative storytelling to access government funding to keep this work going.Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected] you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too. Rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or other podcast platforms. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky, and Facebook and tag a friend!

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• Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex Zahara

  Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex ZaharaEpisode highlightIn this episode, Alex Zahara talks about how a non-Indigenous person can be a good ally and accomplice to Indigenous peoples in Canada.ResourcesAlex ZaharaUR Pride Center CaseAccomplices Not Allies: Abolishing the Ally Industrial ComplexPollution is ColonialismMohawk InterruptusWe Are FireNatasha CaverleyBreathing Fire into Landscapes that Burn: Wildfire Management in a Time of AlterlifeOtherwise Worlds: Against Settler Colonialism and Anti-Blackness by Tiffany Lethabo KingTreaty Land Sharing NetworkCentering Indigenous voices: The role of fire in the Boreal Forest of North AmericaSponsorsThe Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire ScienceIndigenous Leadership InitiativeQuotes 17.44 – 17.52: “This is actually the first time in Canadian history when the Notwithstanding Clause was used to suppress the charter rights of children.” 22.42 - 22.48: “These attacks… on trans rights are also an attack on Indigenous rights.” 1.14.54 - 1.15.10: “When I’m thinking about how do I be a settler and how do I… settle, I do think that there are ways of… living together in a way that doesn’t emphasize conquest and that just emphasizes… sharing.” TakeawaysThe gathering place (06.06)Alex Zahara is a non-Indigenous researcher in Kistahpinanihk, which means the Great Meeting Place, also known as Prince Albert in Treaty 6 territory, the Metis Homeland and the Homeland of the Dakota. He works out of the Northern Forestry Centre as a fire research scientist for the Canadian Forest Service and believes his location informs his research approach. Prince Albert, located along the northern Saskatchewan River is where prairies and agricultural land in the south roll into boreal forests in the north, giving summer thunderstorms and fire, and has been home to many First Nations.A place of community (10.30)As a settler, Alex often thinks about what his role is in Indigenous fire stewardship. “I have a lot of obligations to people who have been here before and currently, and… [I am] also folded into different agreements that were already in place”, he notes. As a gay man, he also thinks about others in the queer community, so being a settler for him means centering two-spirit and trans people, especially in the light of recent anti-trans legislation. As a researcher, he wrestles with accusations on teachings in the light of parent rights, with only some gender ideologies being aligned with inherent human and treaty rights.Misgendering and outing (13.09)Alex explains how the legislation came to be, when Planned Parenthood pamphlets were left in a Saskatchewan classroom containing inappropriate information. The following week, the government pot forth new legislation banning third parties from teaching sex education and restricting gender pronoun use, making it mandatory for people under 16 to get parental consent to go by a different gender or pronoun in the classroom. Without parental consent, teachers and classmates are then forced to misgender, which leads to negative health outcomes, while an outing could be dangerous for some. Taking away children’s rights (15.34) The University of Regina Pride Center requested an injunction on the legislation that required gender-diverse youth to either remain misgendered or be outed, since it is likely to cause irreparable harm. While it was first accepted, Saskatchewan used the Notwithstanding Clause, allowing them to overwrite certain aspects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This clause was added when the constitution was created since some provinces wouldn’t sign up for it without one. Alberta followed and has proposed medical restrictions too. Prince Albert, where Alex is from, is 50% Indigenous, including 2-Spirit people.Violation of 2-Spirit Rights (19.25)Alex highlights that being 2-Spirit is an Indigenous right, so the usage of the Notwithstanding Clause is being disputed because it cannot be used to suppress Indigenous rights. Treaty agreements, especially in Treaty 6, include the right to healthcare, which includes having access to medical support. The provincial government is also obligated to upload the inherent rights to cultural expression. However, the gender ideology being professed by the government is a binary nuclear family, which doesn’t align with Indigenous cultural worldviews. Reclaiming Indigenous culture (21.37)Alex finds it heartening going to Pride celebrations and observing Indigenous youth exercise their right to be 2-Spirit peoples, “which is particularly important after residential schools, where… rigid gender ideologies were enforced on people”. He acknowledges that folks from Prince Albert Pride have been working hard to put statements out and organize activities for advocacy, emphasizing how this is an Indigenous rights issue along with being a queer rights issue. He laments that the cis-white men understanding of queer rights is limited to marriage, whereas there are more issues underneath.Cultural safety (25.26)Alex mentions the work done by Amy on cultural safety in Indigenous fire management, particularly trans people. Many trans people have stopped being firefighters because the firefighting culture lacks acceptance. So, he emphasizes inclusivity and creating safe spaces for queer and trans folk in all the work he does. However, in a province where nobody’s identity is affirmed till they are over 16, trans adults in fire management “have to end up starting a few steps back, because they didn’t get to be who they were, and come into themselves until much later”.Accomplices vs. Allies (30.35)Alex was introduced to an article, Accomplices Not Allies, by his PhD advisors, which influenced how he thought about research. He read it often to understand the differences between allies and accomplices. For him, an accomplice is willing to lose privilege and access to power. He compares that to how straight people are expected to walk in front of a Pride Parade, protecting the crowds behind them. He talks about Audrea Simpson’s politics of refusal, where Indigenous Nations insist on the Integrity of self-governance and refuse citizenship of the colonial state.Truth and reconciliation (36.43)Alex encourages settlers to not only learn the truth about Canada’s history but also do the work on reconciling. He mentions how the Muskrats to Moose Project, which both Amy and Alex are involved with, is working towards this cause. They try to bring different groups of people together to learn about the importance of fire on the land in supporting the ecosystem, cultural landscape and economies. A large invasive king grass species grows very tall and does not provide a good home for muskrats, so burning helps maintain the habitat to sustain this species.Accomplice as an identity (39.52)Alex narrates some incidents at a youth camp in Saskatchewan, where they had to do a burn in March since they aren’t allowed to do so after April 1. Some of the discussions that took place were about reconciliation fires and how they should exist in a particular way within the government legislation. He emphasizes how being an accomplice means helping ensure that the settler state is not the one that makes decisions on Indigenous ways of being. Taking on ‘accomplice’ as an identity means you are always thinking about what you can do. He also discusses how the let-burn policy is critiqued by Indigenous leadership. The Indigenous Invitation (45.52)Alex began his research by wanting to research Nunavut but returned to Prince Albert when he felt a calling to work for his community. He believes being a settler means planning to be here a long time, which opens up different possibilities. He wanted to study the settler state government and learned to only step in when invited by Indigenous communities. He lists the values that are managed for in fire response – human life, community infrastructure, industrial infrastructure and timber. Unfortunately, Indigenous peoples are not consulted when deciding which fires to put out. Indigenous fire management (51.13)Alex points out that saying ‘fire is caused through natural factors’ is another way in which Indigenous erasure takes place, since there has been a history of Indigenous people being involved in stewarding the fire. He believes it is important to have open lines of communication with Indigenous Nations to decide the values in fire management, and to respect traditional Indigenous knowledge and its role in helping fight climate change. Cultural sites should also be included in the list of values to manage for in a fire, whereas environmental values are instructed by the Ministry of Environment to the fire protection agency.Building a Tribal Council (59.02)Alex talks about how he authored his paper, Breathing Fire into Landscapes, inspired by the Prince Albert Grand Council (PAGC) task force report. He began working in an official capacity with PAGC in 2020 with a project to create a Tribal Council to document traditional ecological knowledge perspectives related to fire. There has been a lot of youth involvement for community development as a part of this project. The PAGC had to edit their job descriptions to appeal to youth who wanted to improve fire for their community. They received 65 applications from people with varying skills.Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire (1.04.38)Alex has recently transitioned into a position of Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service. He is grateful to Amy and David Young for helping him formulate his position on Indigenous fire stewardship. REDFire Lab, which stands for Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire, is a joint venture of the three to champion community-based projects. The plan is to collaborate with different First Nations and help them collaborate with the federal government if they are interested in providing direct recommendations on how to improve fire response so that projects can develop in ways that serve the community.Indigenous Consultation (1.09.31)One of the first projects Alex wants to work on is evaluating the Alberta and Saskatchewan federal-to-provincial government natural resource transfer agreement of 1930. Indigenous Nations were not consulted in making this agreement, despite treaty and non-treaty agreements being in place. That is why many Indigenous Nations don’t recognize the provinces as “having the proper authority to assert their jurisdiction”. This impacted present-day fire management and the relationships between fire response agencies and First Nations, with some First Nations taking legal action against the agreement. “You can’t move forward without the truth” (1.13.03)Alex emphasizes that evaluating the truth of the past is important to address the issues of the present. He laments that settler colonialism involved settler entitlement to Indigenous lands for settler goals. “That entitlement to go on and do your thing despite whatever other people want… is kind of the history of Canada in some ways”, he notes. He talks about the role of conquest and racism in colonization, which manifested itself in the creation of Indian Residential Schools and the denial of legal aid to Indigenous people when the natural resource transfer agreement was made. Ceding authority and power (1.15.11)Alex explains how due to systemic bias, people need to think about how they can cede authority over decision-making in order to be a good accomplice. He shares the example of a community in southern Saskatchewan whose farmers sent a petition to the government demanding more land and agricultural support for the First Nation next to them, even if they had to give up some of their land. The Treaty Land Sharing Network is a group of farmers who put up Treaty Land Sharing signs on their farms to do away with the requirement of permission before Indigenous farmers engage in traditional harvesting practices.Indigenous information from Indigenous sources (1.17.36)Alex credits Amy with helping him become a better ally and accomplice, especially with how she cites only Indigenous sources in her papers. He encourages listeners to think about their research techniques and the diversity of the sources they cite in their papers. There is a lot of information available by Indigenous sources and those are the ones that should be sought, read and cited. Sometimes, the information may not have been made public due to important reasons, he adds, but it is important not to assume that the information does not exist.Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected] you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

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