The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

As the United States approaches its 250th birthday, how should Americans assess the country's strength, its democracy, and its role in the world?

Recorded live at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer are joined by historian and foreign policy scholar Robert Kagan for a wide-ranging conversation on America's future. Drawing on four decades of writing about American power and the international order, Kagan argues that the United States is living through two historic shifts at once: a renewed struggle over American identity at home and a retreat from the global leadership that defined the post-World War II era.

Topics covered:


Whether the United States is entering a genuinely multipolar world


The future of NATO, Europe, China, and Taiwan


Democratic backsliding and the resilience of American institutions


What America's role in the world should look like over the next quarter century

Jake and Jon also challenge Kagan on Iraq, Iran, the use of American power abroad, and whether the United States can rebuild trust with its allies after the Trump era.

Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly.

For exclusive podcast segments, become a member of the Long Game on Substack or Apple. 

Show notes are available here.

Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.

Transcript here.

Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com.

The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian and “On Tyranny” author Timothy Snyder joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss the Iran war and ceasefire negotiations, the state of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, how Ukraine has transformed drone warfare, what these wars reveal about the limits of American military power, and what a positive vision of freedom looks like for the United States as it approaches its 250th anniversary. 

Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly.

Show notes are available here.

Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.

Transcript here.

Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com.

The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

President Trump says the war with Iran is over. But what exactly did the United States agree to?

Ambassador Wendy Sherman, the lead U.S. negotiator of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to assess the new U.S.-Iran agreement and explain why she believes it gives Tehran significant concessions while securing few meaningful nuclear constraints in return.

Topics covered:


Whether the United States or Iran emerged with greater leverage from the war


The future of Iran's nuclear program and its economic windfall through sanctions relief and Strait of Hormuz fees


What the deal means for Israel, the Gulf states, and the broader Middle East


Why diplomacy requires expertise, patience, and direct engagement with adversaries

Jake and Jon also discuss whether Congress will review the agreement, what it could mean for Russia and global energy markets, and other stories they're watching in the weeks ahead.

For transcripts, exclusive podcast segments, and more, subscribe to The Long Game on Substack.  On  Apple Podcasts, subscribe to The Long Game+ for exclusive audio. This week, paid subscribers get access to an exclusive segment in which Jake and Jon share behind-the-scenes stories from their own negotiations with Iranian officials during the Obama administration, including late-night bargaining sessions in Vienna, secret talks in Oman, and some of the unexpected moments that helped shape the 2015 Iran nuclear deal.

Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly.

Show notes are available here.

Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.

Transcript here.

Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com.

The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the World Cup kicks off, what can soccer tell us about the state of the world?

Franklin Foer, author of “How Soccer Explains the World,” joins the show to discuss why the world's most popular sport remains one of the best lenses for understanding nationalism, globalization, identity, and political power. More than twenty years after the book's original publication, Foer reflects on how globalization reshaped the game, why national identity remains a powerful force, and what the World Cup reveals about today's geopolitical landscape.

Topics covered:


 Why globalization often strengthened nationalism rather than weakened it


The possibility of a U.S.-Iran World Cup showdown on American soil


The roles of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the growing intersection of sports and geopolitics


President Trump’s relationship with FIFA

Subscribe to The Long Game on Substack for exclusive video content, transcripts, and more. This week, paid subscribers receive the inaugural edition of The Wrap, where Jake and Jon share what they're reading, revisit something they may have gotten wrong, and discuss the issues they're watching most closely.

Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly.

Show notes are available here.

Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.

Transcript here.

Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com.

The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More than four years into the Russia-Ukraine war, has the battlefield finally begun to shift?

Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer sit down with Michael Kofman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict, fresh off a trip to Ukraine's frontlines. Kofman argues that Ukraine is in its strongest position since 2023 and explains why Russia's grinding offensive may be running out of steam. Together, they discuss how Ukraine used drones and battlefield innovation to offset Russian advantages, why Moscow's military strategy is producing diminishing returns, and what it would take to translate recent developments on the battlefield into a lasting political settlement.

They discuss:


Why Kofman believes Ukraine has gained the advantage for the first time in years


How drones and decentralized defense production have transformed the battlefield


Whether Russia can be convinced that continuing the war is futile

Subscribe to The Long Game on Substack for exclusive video content, transcripts, and more. This week, paid subscribers will receive a special mailbag segment  where Jake and Jon answer listener questions.

Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly.

Show notes are available here.

Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.

Transcript here.

Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com.

The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices