The Remnant Radio's Podcast

What does the Bible actually say happens to the lost? Chris Date of ​Rethinking Hell joins the show to lay out the biblical case for annihilationism / conditional immortality, the view that the unsaved are resurrected, judged, and then die a second death rather than suffering consciously forever.

ABOUT THE EPISODE:
Chris spent his first years as a believer firmly convinced of eternal conscious torment, until an interview with the late Edward Fudge sent him back to the text. What followed was months spent trying to defend the traditional view and failing to find a version of it that held up exegetically. In this conversation, he walks through why.

A lot of believers are quietly wrestling with the doctrine of hell right now, caught between a traditional view that many find hard to square with the character of God and a universalism that abandons judgment altogether. Chris argues conditionalism is neither of those things: it takes judgment seriously while insisting the Bible describes that judgment as death, not endless suffering.

Wherever you land on after watching, Chris's closing word is worth sitting with: this is a debate the creeds leave open, and how we treat brothers and sisters who land differently matters as much as the conclusion we reach.

0:00 – Introduction
0:54 – Chris Date's Testimony
6:49 – Defining Conditional Immortality
14:50 – Tree Of Life Motif
19:37 – Why Hell Debate Now
35:37 – Daniel & Matthew 25
42:22 – Matthew 10:28 Apollumi
49:47 – 2 Thessalonians 1:9
57:21 – Revelation 20 Lake Fire
1:13:35 – Partial Conditionalism Debate
1:20:46 – Rethinking Hell Resources
1:30:52 – Closing Thoughts: Atonement

ABOUT THE GUEST:
Rethinking Hell: https://rethinkinghell.com/
Chris Date's website: https://www.chrisdate.info/
Chris Date's journal articles: https://www.chrisdate.info/journal-articles

RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Edward Fudge, The Fire That Consumes: https://www.amazon.com/Fire-That-Consumes-Historical-Punishment/dp/1608999300
Edward Fudge, Hell: A Final Word: https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Final-Edward-W-Fudge/dp/0891121498
Edward Fudge & Robert Peterson, Two Views of Hell: https://www.ivpress.com/two-views-of-hell
Rethinking Hell: Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism: https://rethinkinghell.com/rethinkinghell-book/
A Consuming Passion: Essays on Hell and Immortality in Honor of Edward Fudge: https://rethinkinghell.com/aconsumingpassion-book/
Concerning Hell (Copan, Date & Huff, IVP Academic): https://www.amazon.com/Concerning-Hell-Theological-Philosophical-Historical/dp/1514004976
Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller & Michael Rowntree for RemCon "Prophecy & Hearing God's Voice" October 1-3 | Houston, TX
Learn more & register: https://www.theremnantradio.com/remnant-fall-conference-2026
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Continuationists and cessationists spend a lot of time responding to one another, but how often is that response actually accurate? Joshua Lewis and Michael Miller explore the caricatures both sides fall into when talking about the gifts of the Spirit.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
Most debates about the gifts of the Spirit aren't really debates. They're two sides responding to a caricature of the other. Cessationists often get flattened as denying the supernatural altogether. Continuationists get painted as accepting any miracle claim with zero discernment. Neither one is a fair assessment, and in a body of Christ already low on trust, sloppy caricatures do real damage.

This isn't a conversation about one bad take or one public figure. Joshua and Michael zoom out to examine the broader habits that shape our theological debates. How should we define each other’s positions? What responsibility do we have to correct our own overstatements? And how can we strongly disagree while still representing one another truthfully?

The goal isn't to erase the real differences between continuationism and cessationism. Those differences matter, and this episode doesn't pretend otherwise. The goal is precision, humility, and the kind of Christian charity that's supposed to mark how believers disagree, because you can't fairly critique a position you haven't first tried to understand.

0:00 – Introduction
1:36 – Continuationism & Cessationism Defined
2:29 – Bethel Church Misdefinition
4:38 – Justin Peters Discussion
13:56 – Show Outline Overview
15:32 – Wesleyan Vs Reformed Roots
22:46 – God Told Me Providence
28:21 – Ordinary Vs Extraordinary Grace
40:11 – Suspicion Of Motives
56:02 – Judging Worst Not Best
1:00:26 – Destiny Image Concerns
Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller & Michael Rowntree for RemCon "Prophecy & Hearing God's Voice" October 1-3 | Houston, TX
Learn more & register: https://www.theremnantradio.com/remnant-fall-conference-2026
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
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Heresy doesn't knock and announce itself. It shows up wearing just enough biblical language to sound credible. Joshua Lewis breaks down Cracking the Time Code by Candice Smithyman (Destiny Image, 2025), offering a robust scriptural critique that doubles as a lesson in how to spot the same patterns anywhere else you find them.

Joshua's review traces how the book builds toward a word of faith framework, where your own faith produces blessing and protects against loss, and even extends into a claim that death itself may be optional for a sufficiently "heaven-attuned" believer. If that sounds familiar, it should. Prosperity theology, gnostic anthropology, and low Christology have circled through church history since the first century, just with new packaging each time.

Watch this episode to better understand why this book is promoting false teaching and heresy, not Christianity. Additionally, use Josh's teaching as a case study for recognizing the false. The goal is for all of us to get sharper at telling the difference between genuine insight and repackaged error.

0:00 – Introduction
2:16 – Cracking the Time Code
2:32 – Greek and Hebrew Foundations
4:22 – Invented Word Meanings
10:18 – Correct Words, Wrong Theology
15:01 – Word of Faith Imports
21:53 – Gnosticism in the Book
28:01 – Most Dangerous Claims
34:53 – Closing Thoughts
Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller & Michael Rowntree for RemCon "Prophecy & Hearing God's Voice" October 1-3 | Houston, TX
Learn more & register: https://www.theremnantradio.com/remnant-fall-conference-2026
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

There are still God-fearing, God-loving people attending Bethel Church. That's exactly what makes this episode hard to make. But in light of recent events, we have to ask: Have we reached the point of mark and avoid? This is a one-stop, 30-minute review of concerns with Bethel to see the patterns.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
Remnant Radio has kept an eye on Bethel for years - through the grave soaking scandal, through Bill Johnson's daughter-in-law describing the Holy Spirit as a "genie," through the New Age framework quietly baked into Physics of Heaven, through Culture of Honor, through Bob Jones and Kenneth Copeland getting platformed anyway, and now through Shawn Bolz. We have reviewed many of these practices and situations over the years, and our comments have grown firmer and sterner toward Bethel leadership.

Now there's a new development, and it's not about doctrine. According to Mike Winger's sources, the people currently being let go at Bethel are the ones who kept asking the questions about transformation and change. If that's accurate, it isn't a staffing decision, but a pattern about the thinking and decision making of Bethel leadership.

So Josh asks the question a lot of Bethel's own alumni have been asking quietly for months, and finally says out loud what he's suspected for a while: is this still a church working through its mistakes, or has leadership moved somewhere it can't recover from? Are we at mark and avoid?

This isn't a pile-on. It's for the people who've genuinely loved this church and are trying to figure out what faithfulness looks like now that the pattern is this clear.

0:00 – Introduction
0:22 – Bethel Controversy Background
3:55 – Grave Soaking & Genie Scandal
5:34 – Michael Brown Interviews Bill Johnson
6:20 – Winger's First Bethel Review
7:21 – Physics Of Heaven Exposed
8:32 – Kenneth Copeland Endorsement
8:58 – Shawn Bolz Scandal Breaks
10:03 – Winger Exposes Shawn Bolz
13:56 – Bethel's Public Apology
16:47 – Passion Translation Plagiarism
17:23 – Layoffs And NDAs
20:01 – NDA Rights And Scripture
27:01 – PR Versus Real Repentance
29:54 – Examine Your Own Church

PLAYLIST ON POLICING THE CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMsjeViSScFHSZqA1Q85VKxRrkvEYXBec

PREVIOUS RR EPISODES OF BETHEL CHURCH:
2020 - https://youtu.be/sOTdC5LnrVA
2020 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soFFhiYZY-E
2020 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMkKILXkKWs
2020 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRvpVqmk5RU
2020 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6k91pFZWVc
2022 - https://youtu.be/w8b7y7mWIvg
2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XlUPjWRqpc
2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hseSRlFKzSM
2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTcgjtvc91E
2022 - https://youtu.be/9Bys8_ylGUk
2026 - https://youtu.be/TN6UbN0Vq6E
2026 - https://youtu.be/NSWzRCDTPNU
2026 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U1-rugrYZM
2026 - https://youtu.be/PEKIozi7Cjc
2026 - https://youtu.be/z0PTDwlpQPo
2026 - https://youtu.be/AcXNqe4vg6E
Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller & Michael Rowntree for RemCon "Prophecy & Hearing God's Voice" October 1-3 | Houston, TX
Learn more & register: https://www.theremnantradio.com/remnant-fall-conference-2026
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
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💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
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 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church

You were probably taught to read Daniel like a codebook with beasts to identify, timelines to chart, and an Antichrist to spot. Dr. Jim Hamilton thinks the church has been missing the point, and he makes a compelling case that the key to Daniel's strangest visions is hiding in the stories of chapters 1–6.

ABOUT THE EPISODE:
Dr. Jim Hamilton, professor of biblical theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and senior pastor of Kenwood Baptist Church, joins Joshua Lewis to walk through his book With the Clouds of Heaven: The Book of Daniel in Biblical Theology. His central claim: Daniel wrote real history and real prophecy, and the apocalyptic visions of chapters 7–12 aren't a departure from the narratives of chapters 1–6, but rather a projection of them. 

Look to the patterns: Nebuchadnezzar attacks God's people, plunders the temple, and tries to indoctrinate the faithful in Daniel 1, and that same pattern gets pressed onto the end times, again and again, until it culminates in resurrection of the dead (Daniel 12:2). Dr. Hamilton makes the case that Daniel interpreted his own God-given visions through a mind saturated with earlier Scripture, describing Nebuchadnezzar's shattered statue in the language of Psalm 1 and Psalm 2. 

However, the sparks fly on the fourth man in the fiery furnace. Dr. Hamilton argues it was an angel, not the pre-incarnate Christ, and Joshua isn't ready to concede. You'll also get his take on the 70th week of Daniel, resurrection hope in the Old Testament, and why Daniel parallels the book of Revelation.

ABOUT THE GUEST:
- https://jimhamilton.info
- With the Clouds of Heaven: The Book of Daniel in Biblical Theology https://a.co/d/00WPN6Zr
- Typology: Understanding the Bible's Promise-Shaped Patterns https://a.co/d/0d5vWjzG

RESOURCES MENTIONED: 
- Waking from the Dust: Daniel 12:2 and Resurrection Hope in Biblical Theology by Mitchell L. Chase https://a.co/d/02n8iyCx
- Knowing God by J.I. Packer: https://a.co/d/0bSWnkek
- The Book of Revelation (NIGTC) by G.K. Beale: https://a.co/d/0dUD4rQ9

0:00 – Introduction
2:40 – Daniel's Theology Overview
4:30 – Dating Daniel's Prophecies
6:59 – Nebuchadnezzar Patterns Repeated
13:07 – Daniel in the Writings
16:29 – Eden to Daniel
19:57 – Nebuchadnezzar's Dream, Psalm 1
28:46 – Fourth Man Debate
46:02 – Daniel 10 Angelic Visions
49:08 – Resurrection in Daniel
57:03 – Daniel's 70th Week
1:02:42 – Closing Encouragement
Join Joshua Lewis, Michael Miller & Michael Rowntree for RemCon "Prophecy & Hearing God's Voice" October 1-3 | Houston, TX
Learn more & register: https://www.theremnantradio.com/remnant-fall-conference-2026
Subscribe to The Remnant Radio newsletter and receive our FREE introduction to spiritual gifts eBook. Plus, get access to: discounts, news about upcoming shows, courses and conferences - and more. Subscribe now at TheRemnantRadio.com.
Support the show
ABOUT THE REMNANT RADIO: 
The Remnant Radio exists to equip believers who are hungry for the radical middle of both Word and Spirit. Subscribe for twice-weekly content on theology, church history and the gifts of the Spirit.
📧 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER
📚 COURSES & CONFERENCES
🛒 SHOP MERCH
💝 SUPPORT OUR MINISTRY:
• Leave a Tip
• Become a Patron
• Make a Tax-Deductible Donation 
 🌐📧 Check Out Our Church Pages
Josh's Church
Miller's Church
Rowntree's Church