Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder)

  Anton Osika is the co-founder and CEO of Lovable, which is building what they call “the last piece of software”—an AI-powered tool that turns descriptions into working products without requiring any coding knowledge. Since launching three months ago, Lovable hit $4 million ARR in the first four weeks and $10 million ARR in two months with a team of just 15 people, making it Europe’s fastest-growing startup ever.—What you’ll learn:1. Why you need to be in the top 1% of AI tool users2. Watch Lovable build a functional Airbnb clone in 30 seconds—complete with working features and modern design3. The unconventional hiring approach that helped build a 15-person team capable of extraordinary execution4. How traditional product development will look with AI5. What skills will matter most to product teams going forward6. How Anton’s team discovered a breakthrough in AI “unsticking itself”—Brought to you by:• Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification• Fundrise Flagship Fund—Invest in $1.1 billion of real estate—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika—Where to find Anton Osika:• X: https://x.com/antonosika• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonosika/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Anton and Lovable(05:12) Lovable’s rapid growth(09:39) Live demo: Building an Airbnb clone(18:34) Tips for mastering Lovable(21:42) The origin story(26:50) Scaling laws and getting AI unstuck(33:20) Reliability and unique features(36:25) The vision and future of Lovable(38:14) Skills and job market evolution in the age of AI(40:30) Hiring philosophy and team dynamics(46:21) Building in Europe(48:02) Prioritization and product roadmap(51:38) Tools and work environment(53:17) Tactics for moving fast(54:37) Advice for building product teams(57:11) Empowering non-technical founders(58:31) Future developments and user support(01:01:23) Failure corner(01:05:20) Final thoughts and advice—Referenced:• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/• Lovable Launched: https://launched.lovable.app/• Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/• Supabase: https://supabase.com/• GPT engineer: https://github.com/gpt-engineer-org/gptengineer.app• Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/chats/cmFw8dTsGU8D6b9siqQ6U• Fabian Hedin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabian-hedin-2377b0144/• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• Replit: https://replit.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com• Bolt: https://bolt.new/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Lane Shackleton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laneshackleton/• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/• Linear: https://linear.app/• Sana Labs: https://sanalabs.com/• Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/• Claude: https://claude.ai/• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/• Lovable on X: https://x.com/Lovable_dev—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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• Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder)

  Ivan Zhao is the co-founder and CEO of Notion. Ivan shares the untold story of Notion, from nearly running out of database space during Covid to finding product-market fit after several “lost years,” and the hard-won lessons along the way.—What you’ll learn:1. Why you sometimes need to “hide your vision” behind something people actually want—what Ivan calls “sugar-coating the broccoli”2. How Ivan and his co-founder persevered through multiple product resets and complete code rewrites3. Why Notion prioritized systems over headcount, keeping the team small and focused even at scale4. Why Ivan believes in craft and values as the foundation for product development, balancing technical excellence with aesthetic sensibility5. The surprising story of how Notion nearly collapsed during Covid when their single database almost ran out of space with only weeks to spare6. Community-led growth tactics7. Ivan’s unique journey from a small town in China8. Much more—Brought to you by:• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments• Airtable ProductCentral—Launch to new heights with a unified system for product development• Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao—Where to find Ivan Zhao:• X: https://x.com/ivanhzhao• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanhzhao/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Ivan Zhao(04:41) Ivan’s early life and education(07:46) Discovering the vision for Notion(10:49) The lost years of Notion(13:56) Rebuilding and perseverance(17:14) Layoffs and company morale(18:53) Advice for startup founders(25:08) Product-market fit(29:56) Staying lean and efficient(34:27) Creating a unique office culture(37:20) Craft and values: the foundation of Notion’s philosophy(38:44) Navigating tradeoffs in product and business building(41:24) Leadership and personal growth(49:11) Challenges and crises: lessons from Notion’s journey(51:08) Building horizontal software: joys and pains(01:02:40) Philosophy of tools and human potential(01:06:17) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Ürümqi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi• Notion: https://www.notion.com/• SpongeBob SquarePants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants• Augmenting Human Intellect: https://web.stanford.edu/class/history34q/readings/Engelbart/Engelbart_AugmentIntellect.html• Alan Kay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay• Ted Nelson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson• Steve Jobs on Why Computers Are Like a Bicycle for the Mind (1990): https://www.themarginalian.org/2011/12/21/steve-jobs-bicycle-for-the-mind-1990/• Xerox Alto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto• React: https://react.dev/• Simon Last on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140/• Magna-Tiles: https://www.magnatiles.com/• Design on a deadline: How Notion pulled itself back from the brink of failure: https://www.figma.com/blog/design-on-a-deadline-how-notion-pulled-itself-back-from-the-brink-of-failure/• Bryan Johnson on X: https://x.com/bryan_johnson• Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook• Smalltalk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk#:• Lisp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)• DeepSeek: https://www.deepseek.com/• Shana Fisher: https://www.crunchbase.com/person/shana-fisher• LAMY 2000 fountain pens: https://www.jetpens.com/LAMY-2000-Fountain-Pens/• Macintosh 128K: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K• Toshiba rice cooker: https://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/us/cooking-appliances/rice-cooker• Transistor radio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radio• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/• Misattributed McLuhan quote: https://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/we-shape-our-tools-and-thereafter-our-tools-shape-us/• Phin Barnes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phineasbarnes/• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/• Pablo Picasso quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/629531-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#:~• Connections with James Burke on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/amzn1.dv.gti.484e32c5-60bd-4493-a800-e44fd0940312• The Enneagram Institute: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/—Recommended book:• The Romance of the Three Kingdoms: https://www.amazon.com/Romance-Three-Kingdoms-Luo-Guanzhong/dp/024133277X—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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• The creator of WordPress opens up about becoming an internet villain, why he’s taking a stand, and the future of open source | Matt Mullenweg (founder and CEO, Automattic)

  Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community.—What you’ll learn:• Matt’s response to public criticism• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.• Loom—The easiest screen recorder you’ll ever use—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg—Where to find Matt Mullenweg:• X: https://x.com/photomatt• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/• Website: https://ma.tt/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg(05:10) Matt’s career journey(11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy(17:28) How Matt got involved with open source(23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”(27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved(35:25) Building a successful online community(39:12) The WP Engine controversy(50:24) Facing criticism and controversy(55:29) Addressing community concerns(01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields(01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception(01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr(01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy(01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans—Referenced:• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/• Automattic: https://automattic.com/• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/• Calm: https://www.calm.com/• August: https://august.com/• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• Wix: https://www.wix.com/• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet• Llama: https://www.llama.com/• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/• Justin Baldoni Hit with Defamation Suit as PR Teams Turn on Each Other over Blake Lively’s ‘It Ends with Us’ Smear Campaign Allegations: https://deadline.com/2024/12/justin-baldoni-defamation-lawsuit-publicist-blake-lively-1236241784/• How WordPress Hot Nacho Scandal Shapes WP Engine Dispute: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/how-wordpress-hot-nacho-scandal-shapes-wp-engine-dispute/539069/• Gutenberg: https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/• ClassicPress: https://www.classicpress.net/• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Mary Hubbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfhubbard/• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Founder mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html• Cow.com: https://www.cow.com/• David Karp on X: https://x.com/davidkarp• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/• Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/• WP Engine Tracker: https://wordpressenginetracker.com/• Kumbh Mela: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela—Recommended book:• Maintenance: Of Everything (in progress): https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/addenda/page/introduction—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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  1:34:26
• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead)

  Keith Coleman (VP of product) and Jay Baxter (founding ML engineer), the minds behind Community Notes, reveal how a small, scrappy team inside Twitter/X built the most trusted crowdsourced information system on the internet—one that’s changing the way we understand truth online. What you’ll learn:1. How Community Notes actually works—a deep dive into the groundbreaking algorithm that rewards “bridging agreement” instead of majority rule2. The seemingly crazy yet brilliant way this idea survived multiple CEO changes—from Jack to Parag to Elon3. How this project started with a dumpster fire GIF (literally)—the untold backstory of its early launch4. The secret to running ultra-fast, high-impact product teams—no OKRs, no Jira; just one Google Doc5. What Meta’s adoption of Community Notes means for the future of online (mis)information—why this open source system is becoming the industry standard—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Productboard—Make products that matter• Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet—Where to find Keith Coleman:• X: https://x.com/kcoleman• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-coleman-19b12b46/—Where to find Jay Baxter:• X: https://x.com/_jaybaxter_• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaybaxter/• Website: http://jaybaxter.net/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Community Notes(06:56) How the “bridging-based” algorithm works(13:33) The impact and scale of Community Notes(17:24) Understanding the note publishing threshold(21:32) Challenges and philosophies(26:26) The effect of notes on re-sharing content(29:41) Origin story(35:46) Embracing small teams for big impact(40:23) The thermal project approach(47:47) Algorithm development and internal competitions(50:34) An inside look at how the team operates(58:56) Working with Elon(01:05:30) Launching Birdwatch(01:10:48) The core principles behind Community Notes(01:26:15) Anonymity and pseudonymity in contributions(01:32:17) Sustaining the project through leadership changes(01:37:57) Future directions for Community Notes(01:42:12) Final thoughts and optimism for the future—Referenced:• Community Notes on X: https://x.com/CommunityNotes• Sign up to be a Community Notes contributor: https://communitynotes.x.com/guide/en/contributing/signing-up• The Making of Community Notes: https://asteriskmag.com/issues/08/the-making-of-community-notes• “Readers added a Community Note to this Tweet”: https://x.com/HelpfulNotes/status/1718103364792205704• Note-ranking algorithm: https://communitynotes.x.com/guide/en/under-the-hood/ranking-notes#matrix-factorization• Study: Community Notes on X could be key to curbing misinformation: https://giesbusiness.illinois.edu/news/2024/11/18/study--community-notes-on-x-could-be-key-to-curbing-misinformation• Study Finds X’s (Formerly Twitter’s) Community Notes Provide Accurate, Credible Answers to Vaccine Misinformation: https://qi.ucsd.edu/study-finds-xs-formerly-twitters-community-notes-provide-accurate-credible-answers-to-vaccine-misinformation/• Did the Roll-Out of Community Notes Reduce Engagement with Misinformation on X/Twitter?: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3686967• Kayvon Beykpour on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kayvz/• Jack Dorsey on X: https://x.com/jack• “Birdwatch gives me the creeps” tweet: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589454464611540992• Blake Scholl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakescholl/• Creating Truthtelling Incentives with the Bayesian Truth Serum: https://www.eecs.harvard.edu/cs286r/courses/fall12/papers/DW08.pdf• Asana: https://asana.com/• Spaces: https://blog.x.com/en_us/topics/product/2021/spaces-is-here• Amazon MTurk: https://www.mturk.com/• Community notes on GitHub: https://github.com/twitter/communitynotes• What do I think about Community Notes?: https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023/08/16/communitynotes.html• X’s community-led approach: tackling inaccurate and misleading information: https://blog.x.com/en_us/topics/company/2023/xs-community-led-approach-tackling-inaccurate-and-misleading-information• Linda Yaccarino on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindayaccarino/• Messi-Ronaldo rivalry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messi%E2%80%93Ronaldo_rivalry• Supernotes paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.06116v1—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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  1:47:57
• How to find work you love | Bob Moesta (Jobs-to-be-Done co-creator, author of "Job Moves”)

  Bob Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework, recently published a new book, Job Moves. Drawing from interviews with over 1,000 people about their career transitions, it offers a practical playbook for career development. In our conversation, we discuss:• The four different “quests” that drive career changes• Why job features (salary, title) matter less than experiences• How to identify what gives you energy vs. drains you• The power of taking a “jobcation”• A template for crafting your career story• Tips for hiring and retaining great talent• The importance of prototyping potential careers• Much more—Brought to you by:• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-find-work-you-love-bob-moesta—Where to find Bob Moesta:• X: https://x.com/bmoesta• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/• Website: https://www.jobmoves.com/• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n• The Re-Wired Group: https://therewiredgroup.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Bob's background(05:10) Bob’s new book, Job Moves(09:31) Job features vs. job experiences(11:16) Four reasons people leave jobs(17:20) Energy drivers and energy drains(31:05) Prototyping your next job(34:32) Pushes and pulls(40:01) Understanding that no job is perfect(43:18) Taking a jobcation(51:22) Finding the right next step(55:18) Navigating job applications and interviews(58:28) How to craft your career story(01:04:04) Strengths and weaknesses: leveraging your superpowers(01:06:21) Hiring and writing job descriptions(01:11:20) Self-awareness and founding a startup(01:21:24) Conclusion and final thoughts—Referenced:• The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta• Ethan S. Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/• National Geographic: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career• The Story Spine (also known as Pixar’s Story Structure): https://www.storyprompt.com/blog/the-story-spine-also-known-as-pixars-story-structure• Tobi Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke• Job Moves resources: https://www.jobmoves.com/resources• Why Employees Quit: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quit—Recommended book:• Job Moves: 9 Steps for Making Progress in Your Career: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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  1:24:55

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