From managing people to managing AI: The leadership skills everyone needs now | Julie Zhuo (Facebook VP, Sundial CEO, The Making of a Manager author)
Julie Zhuo is the former VP and Head of Design at Facebook (now Meta), author of the bestselling book The Making of a Manager, and co-founder of Sundial, an AI-powered data analysis company. Also, my first-ever podcast guest over 3 years ago!In our conversation, we discuss:1. The three core manager skills that translate directly to managing AI agents2. How her team uses AI to learn new skills 10x faster3. The ādiagnose with data, treat with designā framework for balancing gut and data4. Why hypergrowth AI companies have terrible data infrastructure (and why it doesnāt matter)5. How to give feedback that actually landsāincluding Julieās exact script for difficult conversations6. What Julieās teaching her kids about an AI future (hint: itās not coding or STEM)āBrought to you by:Mercury ā The art of simplified financesDX ā The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchersPostHogāHow developers build successful productsāTranscript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/from-managing-people-to-managing-ai-julie-zhuoāMy biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/172723725/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversationāWhere to find Julie Zhuo:⢠X: https://x.com/joulee⢠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-zhuo/⢠Website: https://www.juliezhuo.com/⢠Newsletter: https://lg.substack.com/⢠Sundial: https://sundial.so/āWhere to find Lenny:⢠Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com⢠X: https://twitter.com/lennysan⢠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/āIn this episode, we cover:(00:00) Welcome back, Julie!(05:18) The success of The Making of a Manager(08:41) Why AI will make everyone a manager(11:38) The future of management roles(14:00) Empowering teams with AI(21:30) Specific roles being accelerated by AI(26:53) Data analysis in AI companies(32:02) The role of data in design(37:21) The evolving role of managers in the AI era(40:22) Embracing change and uncertainty(42:14) Timeless lessons for managers(49:03) Balancing strengths and weaknesses(57:49) Building a feedback culture(01:05:33) Creating win-win situations(01:09:27) Being aware of your own energy and conviction(01:12:12) Navigating disagreements with higher-ups(01:15:57) AI corner(01:20:08) Contrarian corner(01:23:14) Lightning round and final thoughtsāReferenced:⢠Julie Zhuo on accelerating your career, impostor syndrome, writing, building product sense, using intuition vs. data, hiring designers, and moving into management: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/episode-2-julie-zhuo⢠Waymo: https://waymo.com/⢠How we restructured Airtableās entire org for AI | Howie Liu (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-we-restructured-airtables-entire-org-for-ai⢠Cursor: https://cursor.com/⢠The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers canāt stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell⢠Inside ChatGPT: The fastest growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley⢠Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff⢠OpenAIās CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai⢠Anthropicās CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next⢠The Magic Loop: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-magic-loop⢠Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect⢠Eric Antonow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonow/⢠Methaphone: https://methaphone.com/⢠Replit: https://replit.com/⢠āBabyā by Justin Bieber on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/6epn3r7S14KUqlReYr77hA⢠Kingdom Rush: https://www.kingdomrush.com/⢠Dr. Becky on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drbeckyatgoodinside⢠Emily Oster on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@profemilyoster⢠La La Land on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80095365⢠Granola: https://www.granola.ai/⢠Matic robots: https://maticrobots.com/⢠Limitless pendant: https://www.limitless.ai/⢠How I AI: https://www.youtube.com/@howiaipodcastāRecommended books:⢠The Making of a Manager: What to Do when Everyone Looks to You: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Manager-What-Everyone-Looks/dp/0525540423⢠High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884/⢠Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values: https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance-Inquiry/dp/0061673730⢠Conscious Business: How to Build Value Through Values: https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Business-Build-through-Values/dp/1622032020⢠Good Inside: A Practical Guide to Resilient Parenting Prioritizing Connection Over Correction: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Inside-Guide-Becoming-Parent/dp/0063159481/āProduction and marketing by https://penname.co/. 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