Coaching for Leaders

Bill Flynn: The Hero Trap

Bill is CEO of Catalyst Growth Advisors and a member of Marshall Goldsmith’s 100 Coaches Agency, a global community of the world’s top executive coaches. His writing appears in Harvard Business Review, Training Magazine, and ATD. He is the author of The Hero Trap: The Leader’s Shift from Doing to Designing (Amazon, Bookshop).

As their teams get larger and their titles get bigger, a lot of leaders work longer and harder. If you think about that for a moment, that’s obviously not sustainable. In this conversation, Bill and I explore how leaders recognize – and get out of – the hero trap.

Key Points

If you keep working harder as your team grows, you may be a victim of the hero trap.

Leaders fall into the hero trap because they care too much to let things break.

A key inflection point every leader hits: scale yourself or scale your systems.

Getting out of the hero trap is about shifting your identity.

Controllers solve problems. Builders show others how to solve problems. Architects design systems that solve problems.

Controllers thrive on recognition, urgency, and control. Builders find satisfaction in teaching. Architects find fulfillment in creating systems that outlast them.

Get out of the hero trap through:

The 10-minute prevention reflex. For new issues, ask, “What’s your first step?” and explain as you solve. For recurring issues, ask, “What would prevent this from happening again?”

The Netflix test. Test what happens when you take off an hour, a day, or an entire week. Notice what breaks and address the systems to prevent future problems.

The thinking partnership. Instead of a command and control mindset, invite others to think through problems with you.

Resources Mentioned

The Hero Trap: The Leader’s Shift from Doing to Designing by Bill Flynn (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)

The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems, with Elizabeth Lotardo (episode 764)

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Leanne Dzubinski: Glass Walls

Leanne Dzubinski is an expert on naming and eliminating gender bias in organizations. She is the Dean of Faculty Development and Global Education at Westmont College and a sought-after speaker, consultant, and expert witness who shares tools and strategies that enable women to thrive and organizations to improve their practices. She is the coauthor, along with Amy Diehl, of Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most leaders recognize that bias exists in the workplace for many underrepresented leadership groups, including women. In this conversation, Leanne and I explore how devaluation shows up and how leaders can do a better job at removing it from their teams and organizations.

Key Points

Six bias barriers show up substantially when researching women in the workplace. One of them is devaluation.

Office housework is a common way that women’s contributions become devalued. Leaders should be conscious of distributing this work to everyone and/or providing a reward structure for doing it.

Diminishment includes pet names like “girl” and “young lady” that some use to refer to women. This includes removing titles of women in places where they appear for men. Leaders should consider asking how people want to be addressed.

Benevolent sexism consists of seemingly chivalrous comments and behavior based on stereotypical assumptions about women. Leaders should let women decide what opportunities they participate in and avoid making decisions for them.

Salary inequality is well documented in research. Salary transparency helps reduce this inequality, and salary reviews also help correct disparities.

Leaders calling attention to injustice, even through rephrasing inappropriate language, sets the tone for a more supportive workplace.

Resources Mentioned

Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work by Leanne Dzubinski and Amy Diehl (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Support Women of Color, with Minda Harts (episode 506)

The Power in Empowering Differences, with Ashley Brundage (episode 548)

How to Address Bad Behavior, with Nilofer Merchant (episode 779)

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Caroline Webb: Leadership Intelligence

Caroline Webb is a leadership coach, economist, and author of How to Have a Good Day, which has been published in over sixty countries. She has been named one of the top 50 executive coaches in the world by Thinkers50 and is Senior Advisor on leadership to McKinsey & Company, where she was previously a Partner. She is the author of Leadership Intelligence: Science-Backed Strategies for Mastering 21 Everyday Management Challenges (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Leaders are often called on to repair relationships for the benefit of everybody. When that relationship is a key stakeholder, it’s especially important to approach that process intentionally. In this conversation, Caroline and I detail the most important steps to help that repair go better.

Key Points

Many of us have power, even if it doesn’t feel like it. People with power find it hard to imagine others seeing things differently.

Perspective-taking helps us open up the doors of possibility to collaborate better, even when our assumptions are wrong.

A suspension bridge is a powerful analogy for a stakeholder relationship. Both sides must be strong and connected intentionally for the relationship to work.

The first tower of the suspension bridge is the other party. What could be going on for them that would make their behavior make sense, without assuming bad intent?

The second tower is you. Label what you’re feeling and get as specific as possible with your emotions.

Strengthen the connection with cables through appreciation, involvement, and elevation.

To meet in the middle (the deck), these five steps will help in an interaction:

Intention: share your goal for the relationship.

Observation: describe what you factually observed without assumption of judgement.

Implication: explain why you care and what’s concerning you.

Invitation: ask their side of the story without making assumptions.

Collaboration: mutually problem-solve how to improve the situation.

Resources Mentioned

Leadership Intelligence: Science-Backed Strategies for Mastering 21 Everyday Management Challenges by Caroline Webb (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Involve Stakeholders in Decisions, with Eric Pliner (episode 586)

The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)

How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. Go beyond the podcast to find the right ideas and apply them with confidence inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Robyn Davis: Exhibit Smarter

Robyn Davis has been advising exhibitors across industries and around the world on the strategies that work at trade shows since 2009. As an award-winning speaker, trainer, and consultant, Robyn is known for her fresh perspective and process-driven approach to exhibitor success. She is the author of Exhibit Smarter: A Step-by-Step Guide to Trade Show Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Almost every professional has been to a trade show. A lot of us have represented our organizations at conferences and shows. And many leaders have trade shows somewhere in their portfolios. In this conversation, Robyn and I explore how to help your team engage the right people at these events to ensure the investment you’ve made is worth it.

Key Points

Prioritize strategic value over vanity metrics and activities. Tactics that get people into your booth aren’t necessarily the ones that line up with the needs of your organization.

The decisions that organizations make about trade show activities are often heavily influenced by what’s been done in the past.

Use five steps to lead interactions inside your booth:

Welcome visitors with a targeted question that quickly identifies if a conversation is useful for both parties.

Create and use a qualification rubric for your team to quickly triage interactions.

Ensure smooth handoffs to the right party by making a personal introduction and relying on relevant details of whatever conversation has already taken place.

If the next step is an on-site meeting, make it concise (5-10 minutes) and follow up with a longer interaction later. If demoing a product or service, involve the visitor in the demonstration.

Close with a thank you, business card, brief review of the notes, next steps, and gracefully saying goodbye.

Resources Mentioned

Exhibit Smarter: A Step-by-Step Guide to Trade Show Success by Robyn Davis (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)

The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)

How High Performers Land New Business, with Matt Dixon (episode 736)

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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. Go beyond the podcast to find the right ideas and apply them with confidence inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Priya Parker: The Art of Fighting

Priya Parker is a facilitator, strategic advisor, bestselling author of The Art of Gathering, and executive producer and host of the New York Times podcast, Together Apart. Trained in the field of conflict resolution, she has spent 20 years guiding leaders and groups through complicated conversations about community, identity, and vision at moments of transition. She is the author of the new book, The Art of Fighting: The Transformative Power of Conflict (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Often we assume that good leaders and good teams don’t fight. In this conversation, Priya tells us that, “Fighting is not the death of community. It is its lifeblood.” We explore how to turn conflict into progress.

Key Points

Even experts who handle group conflict often find it challenging, fearful, and unsettling.

Becoming a durable, sustainable group does not happen without a fight.

One of the biggest myths that hold leaders back is that “good” people and “good” groups don’t fight.

There’s a seniority caveat to conflict. Leaders often confuse what needs to be felt with what needs to be said.

It’s a lie to believe that “if only” one thing hadn’t happened that conflict would not have occurred. If it wasn’t that, it would have been something else.

Milestones, transitions, schedule changes, and celebrations are often triggering events for conflict. Instead of thinking, “This is the worst timing,” expect conflict at these times.

Resources Mentioned

The Art of Fighting: The Transformative Power of Conflict by Priya Parker (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)

The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)

How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. Go beyond the podcast to find the right ideas and apply them with confidence inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.