The Conversation

Plunging into a remote mountain lake, camel-trekking for miles through empty desert… Natural landscapes have an incredible ability to change the way we think and behave. Datshiane Navanayagam talks to women from Wales and the Netherlands who spend their time in some of the world's most untouched spots.
Arita Baaijens is a Dutch explorer and environmental biologist. She spent decades exploring the vast empty reaches of the Sahara, where she lived with nomadic tribespeople and kept herself safe with a camel whip. In Siberian mountains and the jungles of Papua New Guinea, living among indigenous people, she learnt new ways of understanding the world.
Brigid Lowe is from Wales but moved to Scotland with her young children to recover from divorce and an assault. She set herself the challenge of swimming a thousand of Scotland's lochs, many of which are ignored and unnamed. Along the way she encountered monsters in the deep, and learnt to read the flow of water. Her latest book, Shiver, describes her time in this austere and challenging landscape.
Producer: Hannah Sander
(Image: (L) Brigid Lowe, credit Ide Crawford. (R) Arita Baaijens, credit Viktor Bentley.)

Cleaning up after a death or violent incident is often far too traumatic and potentially dangerous for family members or for regular cleaning services to undertake. Instead, it’s a task carried out by a small but specialised group of individuals – often women.
Ella Al-Shamahi speaks to two female crime scene and trauma cleaners in South Africa and Northern Ireland who are the last point of contact for families after emergency services and forensic teams have completed their duties.
Alana Gillen initially made her name by taking care of the mansions of some of the Northern Ireland's richest people. She then transferred her skills and now runs the only female-led and owned company in Northern Ireland, specialising in biohazard, crime-scene and trauma cleaning.
Charleen Archibald was trained by two women, known across South Africa as ‘the blood sisters’ (Bloed Susters in Afrikaans). She’s been cleaning up crime and trauma scenes for the past ten years alongside her wife, Sheridan and says that it’s humbling to be invited into somebody’s home on what is often the worst day of their lives.
Listeners are advised that this programme will contain some sensitive content - including descriptions of the aftermath of violent crime, which some may find upsetting.
Producer: Hannah Dean
(Image: (L) Charleen Archibald, credit Charleen Archibald. (R) Alana Gillen, credit Graham Crichton.)

Around the world, mycelium – the root part of fungi – is being used practically as a biological material due to its distinctive properties. Ella Al-Shamahi speaks to two women hoping to reduce the environmental impact of plastic packaging and the meat industry by creating mushroom-based alternatives.
Julia Bialetska is the co-founder and CEO of S.Lab, a company creating protective packaging for consumer products using mycelium to bind hemp. The idea was sparked when Jullia and her husband Eugene Tomilin were taking surfing lessons in Indonesia and witnessed mounds of plastic washed up on a beautiful beach in Bali. On returning home to Ukraine, the couple set out to find a biodegradable alternative to polystyrene. Their business was interrupted when the couple and their two children had to flee Ukraine following Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, and they had to start again in Spain.
Kimberlie Le is the co-founder and CEO of Prime Roots, a company making meat alternatives out of mycelium. At University of California Berkeley, Kimberlie took part in research at the Alternative Meat Lab, which kick-started the fungi-based product. Kimberlie spent her childhood in Canada around food, as her mother is a Vietnamese chef who used koji, a type of mycelium, when Kimberlie was growing up.
Produced by Elena Angelides
(Image: (L) Kimberlie Le, credit Prime Roots. (R) Julia Bialetska, credit Lens of Kate.)

Datshiane Navanayagam talks to women from India and the UK who officiate international and domestic matches for the women’s and men’s games. They’re both on the ICC’s development panel for umpires.
Vrinda Rathi is an Indian cricket umpire. She was one of the first female umpires to stand as an on-field umpire in a men's domestic fixture in India. Earlier this year she became the first Indian woman to officiate in a Women’s World Cup final as one of the two on-field umpires for the final between England and Australia at Lord’s. Vrinda was a medium-pace bowler who represented the Mumbai University women’s team for four years. She couldn’t break into Mumbai’s senior side as a player so became a scorer before eventually switching to umpiring.
Anna Harris took up umpiring as a teenager to earn extra pocket money on the advice of her mother Yolanda, who's also an umpire. At age 22 she became the youngest ever umpire to officiate in an international match for a women’s one day international between England and New Zealand. Anna has played domestic cricket for Wales, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire. She also works as an NHS doctor in Hampshire.
Produced by Jane Thurlow
(Image: (L) Vrinda Rathi, credit Matthew Lewis - ICC. (R) Anna Harris, credit Uganda Cricket.)

While the proportion of girls studying science subjects beyond high school is going up, physics, maths and engineering are still dominated by men. Ella Al-Shamahi talks to two women from Sweden and the UK who are using social media platforms to try and encourage greater equality in STEM subjects.
Eleonora Svanberg is a half-Swedish and half-Persian mathematical physics PhD student at the University of Oxford. With over three quarters of a million followers on social media platforms, @eleonorasvanberg discusses topics related to science, education and equality. Her first book in 2024 was about mathematical confidence, mainly aimed at young girls.
Dr Clara Nellist is a particle physicist and science communicator. She’s from the UK and has studied in France, Germany and the Netherlands. Clara’s work has focused on pixel detectors, the properties of the Higgs boson and the top quark, the heaviest known particle. She’s now working on the ATLAS experiment at CERN she’s has over a quarter of a million followers on social media where she posts videos @particleclara.
Produced by Jane Thurlow
(Image: (L) Eleonora Svanberg, credit Laura Smith. (R) Clara Nellist, credit Clara Nellist.)