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More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
More or Less
Latest episode

157 episodes

  • More or Less

    Chinese AI Model GLM 5.2 Beating Frontier Models | Meta Glasses, Polymarket Scandal, and More AI Talent War

    2026-06-26 | 49 mins.
    The quad is back. Dave and Brit rejoin Sam and Jess fresh off a More or Less fan encounter at the Zurich airport. It was quite the week for Meta as the squad breaks down the company’s new line of glasses featuring Kylie Jenner (or, in Jess’ words, Kendall), and Brit makes the call that this is finally the watershed moment for women buying smart glasses ( The men seem to be the early adopters, Dave wore his in the Sistine Chapel, and Sam owns 10+ pairs.). Then they get into Meta’s prediction market: a genuinely interesting information machine or a very efficient way to addict twenty-somethings to fake gambling? In true MOL fashion, the squad is split. Sam is all in, Dave is worried it’ll work too well, and Brit thinks it’ll all click when you tie it to The Bachelor. Dave also ran GLM 5.2 on eight Nvidia B200s with some hacker friends and came away shaken. Open source is now matching, if not outperforming, frontier models at 10x the speed, raising uncomfortable questions about the enormous bets sitting on frontier labs today. Remember last year’s AI talent war? It’s back, and Jess argues it’s really an early indicator of investor insecurity. Finally, in pop culture corner: Cannes and Sam’s unsolicited review of The Information's new mobile app.Chapters:0:00 Episode trailer0:50 Intro1:12 MOL Got Recognized at the Zurich Airport3:02 What’s on the Agenda Today5:04 Meta Smart Glasses, The Moment Women Finally Buy In?14:20 Meta’s Prediction Markets, Brilliant or Addictive?19:39 Polymarket’s Influencer Problem22:48 AI Talent Wars, Investors Are Reading the Wrong Signals25:40 GLM 5.2 on Nvidia B200s, Open Source Catches Frontier Models28:20 AI Token Spend, Sam’s $1,500/Month Experiment31:04 Sam Reviews The Information App Live36:17 Anthropic, Dell, and the Math Behind Generational Returns43:30 Cannes Lions, Worth It or Corporate Boondoggle?We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/dbdH6dPMDxkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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    Elon Is the Best Financier of Our Generation

    2026-06-19 | 40 mins.
    Sam and Jessica go two-on-two this week to unpack the SpaceX IPO and whether a $2.5 trillion valuation is actually justified, exploring why “it’s valuable because it’s valuable” may be a legitimate investment thesis and why Cursor’s $60 billion acquisition looks cheap in that context. They also break down Anthropic’s clash with the U.S. government over Fable 5, with Sam arguing the crackdown could be the best marketing in AI history, before debating the risks of tying software access to nationality. The episode closes with Meta’s AI morale problem, OpenAI burning nearly $4 billion in Q1 on $5.7 billion in revenue, the case for a multi-model future where no single frontier model wins, and why Sam believes token economics may be one of the most overlooked opportunities in economics. In lieu of Pop Culture Corner, Jessica brings a Reed Hastings book recommendation, while Sam once again demonstrates that having conviction and acting on it are apparently two different skill sets. After eight months of pitching DigitalOcean, he still doesn’t own the stock.

    Chapters:00:00 - Teaser
    01:47 - SpaceX IPO Analysis
    09:17 - Narrative Assets and Retail Investing
    12:09 - The Future of AI Models and Infrastructure
    16:00 - Corporate Narratives, Employee Motivation, and Meta’s AI Challenges
    22:58 - OpenAI’s Market Strategy and Impact
    25:19 - Open Source Models and Market Share
    27:01 - Economics of Tokens and Innovation
    33:01 - Anthropic’s PR Strategy and Fable Model Release
    35:24 - Government Stakes in AI Companies
    39:04 - Reed Hasting's Book Recommendation

    We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/ZVD3jS6LexcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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    Teamshares IPO: $60M EBITDA, 92 Companies, Zero Exits

    2026-06-17 | 51 mins.
    Seven years after Slow wrote its first check, Sam sits down with Teamshares CEO Mike Brown as the company prepares to go public. Mike’s core insight is simple: America has millions of durable, cash-flowing small businesses, but no great long-term owner. After buying and operating electrical contractors himself, he realized the opportunity wasn’t another marketplace or PE roll-up, it was building a permanent holding company that acquires great businesses, gives employees ownership, and never sells. Today, Teamshares owns 92 businesses generating roughly $60M in EBITDA. The conversation explores why most roll-ups fail, why capital allocation is the true operating system of the business, and why the traditional private equity model may be running out of steam. Mike closes with an ambitious goal: grow corporate EBITDA from $19M to $100M by 2027 and create a forever home for thousands of small businesses.

    Chapters
    00:00 Episode Teaser Featuring Mike Brown, Teamshares CEO
    01:11 The Teamshares Origin Story
    04:48 From Wall Street to Buying Small Businesses
    10:47 Why Going Direct to Sellers Didn’t Work (The FSBO Problem)
    13:18 Buying at Scale, The Teamshares Model
    15:27 92 Acquisitions and $60M EBITDA, Lessons Learned
    18:26 Why Generalist Hires Didn’t Work
    19:08 Building a Leadership Pipeline
    23:46 The Internal YC, Community Across Portfolio Companies
    27:42 How Technology Powers 92 Businesses
    28:08 “Will This Business Exist in 50 Years?”
    32:21 Why Most Roll-Ups Fail
    37:30 The Road to $100M EBITDA
    39:51 The Long-Term Vision
    40:58 Capital Allocation as a Competitive Advantage
    42:34 Decentralized Leadership, Centralized Capital
    46:16 Why Private Equity Fails Small Businesses
    49:25 Going Public, What Comes Next

    We’re also on ↓
    X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
    Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
    YouTube: https://youtu.be/3tV4wdtZBuk

    Connect with us here:
    1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
    2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
    3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
    4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
    Important Disclosures and Disclaimers:Teamshares has entered into a definitive agreement for a business combination with Live Oak Crest Acquisition Corp. (“Live Oak”), a special purpose acquisition company. In connection with the proposed transaction, a registration statement on Form S-4 (the “Registration Statement”) has been filed with, and been declared effective by, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). This podcast does not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. For important information about the proposed transaction, including where to find the Registration Statement and other legal disclaimers, please refer to the press release available at https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260527344175/en/Teamshares-Announces-S-4-Effectiveness-in-Anticipation-of-Nasdaq-Listing.Clarifications:
    Teamshares currently has 93 operating subsidiaries. Additionally, Teamshares has had documented revenue declines and business closures. A full reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, as well as Teamshares’ audited GAAP financial statements, is available in the Registration Statement. Investors should review the full set of assumptions and risk factors accompanying these metrics in the Registration Statement.
  • More or Less

    Apple’s New Siri, SpaceX’s $300B IPO & the AI Company Killing Its Own Brand

    2026-06-12 | 44 mins.
    Dave joins the squad from YC just ahead of WWDC, where the group breaks down Apple’s upgraded Siri and the surprising revelation that much of Apple’s AI capability is powered by Google’s Gemini models. It wouldn’t be a technology podcast without the squad expanding into the broader AI landscape, with Dave arguing that outside of OpenAI and Anthropic, most AI companies are becoming infrastructure providers rather than destination products. They continue to unpack the IPO frenzy around SpaceX and OpenAI, including SpaceX’s reportedly massive investor demand and OpenAI’s murky timeline to go public. Jess then shifts the conversation to the turmoil at 60 Minutes, where leadership shakeups, internal revolts, and a declining brand presence raise questions about the future of legacy media. Finally, in Pop Culture Corner, the pod closes with Disney’s $200 million bet on Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift’s outsized promotional impact.
    Chapters:
    01:53 Apple WWDC: New Siri Breakdown
    05:18 Google Gemini Powers Apple AI
    07:06 WWDC Ignored Developers Entirely
    10:21 Tim Cook’s Leadership Baton Pass
    14:30 SpaceX IPO and OpenAI Filing
    18:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI Narrative War
    21:48 Dave Morin’s Two-Phone Redemption
    26:52 60 Minutes Leadership Implosion
    38:44 Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift

    We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/Yvox4U_8u1wConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
  • More or Less

    Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained

    2026-06-05 | 45 mins.
    Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal.

    Chapters:
    02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras
    05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories
    11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley
    15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise
    17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?
    25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI
    30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?
    31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback
    33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks
    41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI
    42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal
    We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/oYmxx8ElGHkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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About More or Less
Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod
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