More or Less

New studio set up: the squad now records from a parked Tesla in the middle of a rainstorm while Sam is on the beach, and somehow it turned into one of our favorite episodes. We break down Meta's new AI campaign, Zuckerberg's vision for AI, why more than 1,000 frontier AI researchers are asking Washington to slow development, and whether fear has become the easiest narrative in tech. Then we get into China cracking deep ultraviolet lithography, what it means for ASML and the AI race, why AI demand still isn't slowing, Lilian Weng's move from Thinking Machines to OpenAI, and Sam's theory that Silicon Valley has developed an Oppenheimer complex.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
1:23 Episode start
9:02 Meta's Ad Campaign Rejects The Doomers
11:14 Zuckerberg's Optimism Blitz Actually Lands
13:11 AI's Dark Side Raises Easier Money
15:04 Sam's Bot Read 4GB Of Dad's Journals
17:28 Nobody Wants To Be Anthropic
18:56 Anthropic Runs On Spite For OpenAI
21:10 OpenAI Was The Original Evil Empire
22:57 Meta Is Still A Centralized Ad Company
24:46 Decentralization Loses Without A Jedi
26:01 Apple Won On Politics, Not Technology
27:16 Meta Earnings Miss On Lawsuits And Severance
28:33 China Cracks DUV, ASML Takes The Hit
29:57 Execs Privately Reject The China AI War
32:39 The Compute Debate Gavin Baker Started
39:13 X Is The Tech Town Square Now
46:57 Lilian Weng Quits For Health, Joins OpenAI
53:50 AI Is A Crisis Of Meaning
54:57 Book The Conference Before You're Invited

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1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Deep summer check-in from the More or Less squad. Dave is back on Instagram after a year away (thanks to Stagecoach), Jessica reviews Benson Boone's Wanted Man tour, Chris Stapleton's Montana show gets a shoutout, and Sam is traveling with a Yeti cooler full of peptides.
Don’t worry, this is still a tech podcast: OpenAI revealed an AI that escaped its testing sandbox and hacked Hugging Face. The crew's hot take is that OpenAI is leaning into the story to strengthen its narrative as revenue growth slows. Then, Stripe could be eyeing PayPal. Sam argues Stripe missed a once-in-a-generation opportunity by staying private instead of using public stock as acquisition currency the way Meta did with WhatsApp. They also explain why agentic commerce still isn't real, despite the hype. Plus, “Peptide Corner” returns with reports from the Hamptons, where peptides have officially gone mainstream, rich people inflation has reached $67 for two cappuccinos and sandwiches, and Sam shares an update on his recovering knee.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer
2:07 Dave Returns to Instagram, Sam Turns 43, and More
8:41 OpenAI's AI Escaped Its Sandbox
16:43 The National Guard Analogy
31:57 Sam's Bot Rebellion Theory
37:44 Is Stripe Buying PayPal?
47:48 Why Agentic Commerce Isn't Here Yet
49:40 Peptide Corner
52:53 Rich People Inflation
54:03 Sam's Knee Recovery
56:47 The GLP-1 Playbook

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YouTube: https://youtu.be/460NqsdQm5A

Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

You know we're deep into summer when Jess leaves the pod early to catch Benson Boone... for the eighth time.

This week, the More or Less squad revisits the Anthropic and OpenAI IPO speculation. Their views haven't changed, but their AI usage certainly has. Dave ditches Anthropic for GLM 5.2 on cost, while Sam argues the AI model wars are effectively over, and the frontier labs know it, which is why they're spending more time in Washington than competing on model quality. America also gets its first serious open weights model. The squad also unpacks OpenAI's hardware ambitions after its much-hyped device turns out to be... an Alexa speaker. Sam explains why Sam Altman's $8 billion Johnny Ive acquisition was effectively free, thanks to narrative capitalism. Plus: real-time voice AI, passive listening devices, peptides, Hinge's new social proof feature, Jay-Z turning New York into a festival, and why biological age tests are basically the clout score of your body.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode Teaser
0:44 Episode Start
2:18 Anthropic IPO This September?
5:29 Dave Dumps Anthropic for GLM 5.
28:22 When Is Better AI Worth Paying For?
12:15 AGI Is Dead, AI Is Political Now
16:15 America's First Open Weights Model By Thinking Machines
21:22 Why Sam Is Depressed About AI
29:07 OpenAI Built... an Alexa? The $8B Johnny Ive Bet
31:38 Silicon Valley Goes Hollywood
36:03 Would You Wear an Always-On Mic?
37:08 OpenAI's Live Voice Model
41:14 Sam's Peptide Experiment
43:36 Hinge Launches “Friend’s Take”
46:11 Jay-Z's NYC Takeover
48:16 Biological Age Is Just a Clout Score

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YouTube: https://youtu.be/B6fO5V09xOc

Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The full quad is back, unpacking OpenAI's offer to give the U.S. government an equity stake. Sam's take: it's less a marketing win than a distress signal. The squad also debates whether Trump Accounts actually reach everyday Americans (Brit is skeptical), defends MacKenzie Scott from the internet's endless opinions about her philanthropy, and digs into Dave's argument that AI labs are slowly strangling the developer ecosystems that could save them.They also tackle Xbox's identity crisis and whether Microsoft should just sell it, the Nex Playground device (In Sam's words: non-VR Beat Saber for families), why 2026 is shaping up to be extreme nihilism wrapped in Silicon Valley optimism, Brit's take that AI has shifted from revolutionary to evolutionary, and, of course in pop culture corner, Brit claiming full credit for calling the Taylor Swift wedding strategy.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer
0:47 Episode Begins
1:10 Fourth of July Recap, Bald Eagles & the No VC Summer
5:10 OpenAI Offered the U.S. Government Equity
11:15 Trump Accounts, Giving Every American Kid a Stake in Capitalism
15:02 Stop Judging MacKenzie Scott's Philanthropy
18:40 AI Labs Are Distressed and Destroying Their Ecosystems
21:50 AI Labs Are Competing With Their Own Developers
35:26 Xbox Is in Trouble, Should Microsoft Sell It?
37:52 Nex, the Quiet Wii Revival Nobody Saw Coming
41:49 Sam's 2026 Prediction: Extreme Nihilism Meets Silicon Valley Optimism
44:04 Vox Americanus Update
46:18 Brit Is Bored of AI. It's Evolution, Not Revolution
48:22 Post-AGI Funds Are a Bad Bet, Physical AI Could Be the Real Revolution
49:27 Going Long on Offline, World Cup, Concerts & Real Life
51:50 Pop Culture Corner: Brit Calls Taylor Swift's Wedding Strategy

We’re also on ↓
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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
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Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The full quad is back just before the Fourth of July. Dave and Sam explain why padel is just pickleball for fancy people, Sam vibe-coded an app to prove you’re actually American on the internet (Vox Americanus is real and you can use it: https://voxamericanus.com), and Dave even nominates Sam for office, even though Sam insists we should fix the job before electing anyone actually good for it.
The crew also dives into why non-engineers are more capable than they think in the age of agentic coding, Claude Fable 5’s government clearance “drama” and return, how GLM 5.2 is quietly replacing Opus 4 on real agent stacks, why Anthropic is still printing revenue despite open source pressure, and the case for an open source router.. They wrap with pop culture corner: Taylor Swift wedding intel and Brit’s review of Alpha School.

Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
0:50 Episode start
1:12 Full Quad Pre-4th of July, Is There Such a Thing as VC Summer?
3:32 Padel Is the New VC Networking Sport, Pickleball Is for the Plebs
9:10 Vox Americanus, Can You Actually Prove You're American Online?
15:25 Should Sam Run for Office? Fix the Job Description First
29:30 Agentic Coding, You're Not Too Late
35:33 Claude Fable 5 Is Back, Government Clearance Drama Explained
41:08 GLM 5.2, Open Source Just Quietly Replaced Opus 4
46:16 Anthropic Still Printing Revenue, The Case for an Open Source Router
47:29 Taylor Swift's Wedding
49:36 Alpha School, Brit's Kids Try AI Education
52:12 America's 250th Birthday

We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
YouTube: https://youtu.be/zqmbW163QKQ

Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit