Nap Trapped

Welcome back to part two of our 100th episode with That Sleep Doc, Dr Sujay Kansagra. He's a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University and the inventor of the Lullabee smart crib mattress. This half is where Bec finally gets to ask about a real bugbear of hers, low sleep needs, and Sally asks Sujay to diagnose her. We get into what actually decides how much sleep our babies need, why six hours of naps won't give you a twelve hour night, whether overtiredness is really a thing and how Sujay copes with the trolls in his comment section. Then it's a very slow fast five, the Lullabee versus the Snoo and the biscuit question we promised you.

Missed part one? Listen here: https://www.naptrappedpodcast.com/p/ep-100-what-is-sleep-training-that-sleep-doc

Subscribe and catch every episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
- Why genetics set our sleep needs and how rare truly low sleep needs are
- Why a low sleep needs label doesn't mean you can't improve sleep
- How stacking too much day sleep can look like low sleep needs
- What the science does and doesn't say about overtiredness
- Why toddlers get wired, not sleepy, when they're short on sleep
- Sujay's take on Wonder Weeks, swaddling, melatonin gummies and sleep consultants
- How the Lullabee weans itself out and why it's the polar opposite of the Snoo

CHAPTERS
00:00 Welcome back, Nap Trappers
00:20 Bec's bugbear: low sleep needs
11:16 Is overtiredness real?
21:06 Trolls and the comment section
28:57 A very slow fast five
36:18 We're a good team

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED
We're Sally Woods from The Sleep Concierge and Bec Maher from The Sleep Centre. Nap Trapped is our baby sleep podcast for tired, time-poor parents who want evidence-based answers in plain language, with realistic expectations and no empty promises.

ABOUT DR SUJAY KANSAGRA
Sujay is a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University, aka That Sleep Doc, and the inventor of the Lullabee smart crib mattress.

LINKS
Sally (The Sleep Concierge) on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Bec (The Sleep Centre) on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Part one: https://www.naptrappedpodcast.com/p/ep-100-what-is-sleep-training-that-sleep-doc
Dr Sujay Kansagra on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc/
Dr Sujay Kansagra on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatsleepdoc
Dr Sujay Kansagra website: https://linktr.ee/thatsleepdoc
Dr Sujay Kansagra on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thatsleepdoc

We made it to 100 episodes and we couldn't think of a better way to celebrate. Sally's heart was beating the whole time 'cause she's that much of a fangirl.

Our guest is the one and only Dr Sujay Kansagra, known to so many of you as That Sleep Doc. He's a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University, where he directs the child neurology sleep medicine program. Sally DM'd him on the seventh of December 2024, before Nap Trapped even existed. It was left on unread. A hundred episodes later, here we are.

In part one we rip the band aid and ask what sleep training actually is, whether sleep associations are real and how you tell a sleep association from a baby seeking connection. Sujay walks us through the learned helplessness research, attachment, night feeds and breastfeeding, parent guilt and why a well rested parent is a safer driver. He also tells us why he invented what he calls the most expensive crib mattress in the world and still says sleep training is safe and effective.

Then we get into the hard bit: the crying. How Sujay coaches families through it, the two methods he reaches for and why even he found sleep training his own kids hard. Sally shares the early rising that finally shifted once she sent her husband to the gym. Bec's famous line gets a run too. Hold steady.

If you've been fear mongered out of getting help, this one's for you.

Subscribe to Nap Trapped wherever you listen and find every episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn:
- Why there's no formal definition of sleep training and how Sujay defines it
- How sleep cycles and normal night wakings bring sleep associations into play
- How to tell if a sleep association is actually a problem for your household
- What the 1960s learned helplessness experiments do and don't tell us about sleep trained babies
- What the research says about sleep training and attachment
- Why night feeds and breastfeeding can sit alongside sleep training
- The two types of crying and how Sujay matches a method to a family's tolerance
- Why having someone in your corner through the execution makes such a difference

Chapters:
00:00 Happy 100th, Dr. Sujay
05:01 So, What Is Sleep Training?
19:31 Busting the Sleep Training Myths
37:26 Coaching Families Through Crying
45:45 Part Two Next Week

ABOUT:
We're Sally Woods from The Sleep Concierge and Bec Maher from The Sleep Centre. Nap Trapped is our evidence-based baby sleep podcast for tired parents who want real answers without the fear mongering. Dr Sujay Kansagra is a child neurologist and sleep medicine doctor at Duke University and the creator of Lullabee. You'll find him on social media as That Sleep Doc.

Links:
Sally, The Sleep Concierge: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Bec, The Sleep Centre: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Dr Sujay Kansagra, That Sleep Doc: https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc/
That Sleep Doc on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thatsleepdoc
That Sleep Doc on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thatsleepdoc
All of That Sleep Doc's links: https://linktr.ee/thatsleepdoc
Camp Snooze intakes: joinsnooze.com
Nap Trapped: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

We're back in the Sleep Detectives hot seat answering your real baby sleep questions — bottles, naps, toddler boundaries, split nights, daycare schedules and a very important Fiji trip. Subscribe and never miss an episode at www.naptrappedpodcast.com

What You'll Learn:
- When to drop the morning and before-lunch bottles (the exact ages)
- How to protect your toddler's sleep when a new baby arrives — and what NOT to change
- The transitional schedule explained: why it doesn't have to look textbook
- Early rising vs. actually early rising — and why we almost never make a nap drop off an early rise
- Split nights: what they actually are (and what's just a resettle going nowhere)
- How to audit a 1am wake with a sleep trained 13 month old
- The pilot analogy from Dr Becky that reframes holding a boundary with a toddler
- Why six months is prime time for sleep shaping
- Daycare schedules with fixed bottle and nap times — how to make it work
- Fiji with a five month old: do you stay on Sydney time or just get on Fiji time?

Chapters:
00:00 – Welcome to Sleep Detectives
00:33 – Dropping bottles: before-lunch and morning bottle ages
02:00 – Protecting toddler sleep when a new baby arrives
06:40 – 12 month old on transitional schedule: one and a half hour afternoon nap
11:22 – 18 month old on one nap: should I wake at two if she'll sleep till three?
12:31 – 14 month old: early waking and 20 minutes to self-settle — time for one nap?
17:18 – 1am wake with a sleep trained 13 month old — split night or resettle?
25:50 – Dr Becky's pilot analogy and holding boundaries with toddlers
31:07 – Six month old: when to start waking from naps to get on a schedule
34:20 – Eight month old in daycare five days a week: adapting nap and feeding advice
39:45 – Five month old trip to Fiji: Sydney time or Fiji time?
41:02 – Wrap up

ABOUT NAP TRAPPED:
Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two sleep consultants, two mothers, one podcast dedicated to evidence-based baby and toddler sleep support in plain language. No empty promises, no guilt, just real answers for tired parents.

Links:
Instagram Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Instagram Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Website: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Is the two-nap schedule wrecking your nine-month-old's sleep — or was something already brewing before you made the drop? This week we work through a real DM case study: a nine-month-old who moved to two naps and promptly hit the fan with short naps, false starts, lengthy middle-of-the-night wake windows and reactive co-sleeping creeping earlier and earlier.
We unpack why the nap drop is rarely the villain, what the clues in this mum's own message tell us about what was already in the mix, and exactly what we'd do first — including why we'd put the third nap back in (yes, really) and why early rising needs to be sorted before any nap transition happens.
We also share a Google review that genuinely made Sally tear up on mic, and Bec drops a quick winter temperature check that could explain a lot of what's creeping back into your nights right now.
Subscribe and find all our resources at www.naptrappedpodcast.com
What You'll Learn
Why the 3-to-2 nap drop is rarely the root cause — and what usually is
The one thing that must be sorted before any nap transition
Why cot-side settling and early-morning co-sleeping have a shelf life
How the eight-month sleep progression creates a perfect storm
Why we'd bring the third nap back in strategically and what that looks like
The room temperature check Bec wants every southern hemisphere family to do right now
How Camp Snooze would approach this exact scenario in two weeks
Chapters
00:10 Welcome back and a Google review that made Sally cry
06:18 What is Camp Snooze?
07:27 The case study DM: nine-month-old, two naps, everything hits the fan
09:15 Was the nap drop really the problem?
11:23 What was already brewing before the drop
13:32 Our fix: bring the third nap back and here's why
14:20 Strengthening self-settling skills at this age
15:50 The co-sleeping shelf life conversation
17:46 How Camp Snooze would handle this over two weeks
20:25 Bec's winter temperature tidbit for early risers
22:02 What to do if you're still on three naps and have sleep issues
22:55 Wrap up
About Nap Trapped
Nap Trapped is hosted by Sally Woods (The Sleep Concierge) and Bec Maher (The Sleep Centre) — two Australian sleep consultants keeping it real for tired parents everywhere. Evidence-based, warm and zero fluff.
Links
Sally: https://www.instagram.com/thesleepconcierge/
Bec: https://www.instagram.com/_thesleepcentre/
Everything else: www.naptrappedpodcast.com

Sally and Bec tackle four real listener cases: third nap chaos, space feeding, early rising and the Early Rising Protocol for almost-12-month-olds.