The Convocation Unscripted

In this TCU+LIVE conversation, we talked about Trump’s shameful, rambling speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, where he talked three times longer than his allotted slot. His remarks were filled with lies about losing the 2020 election, cursing, threats to churches and nonprofits who disagreed with him, and the demonization of Democrats.

We’ve come a long, long way from the days when conservative Christians were proudly talking about themselves as “values voters”—to the point where few white evangelical Trump supporters are even attempting to explain away his markedly unChristian behavior and rhetoric. Would it even be problematic anymore if all white Christian Trump supporters watched the entire speech and were asked, about every 10 minutes, to personally affirm that this is the man they believe is most fit to lead and the vision they want for the country? And if not, what does that mean for the moral state of white conservative Christianity? Be sure to watch the second half, where we took questions from our subscribers across a range of issues: continued violence by ICE, Trump’s threats to seize the midterm elections, and more.

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In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, Jemar, Diana, and Kristin talk about what it means—and what it costs—to speak up in a moment of moral and political crisis. 

Reflecting on the Southern Lights Conference, Alex Pretti, and midterm elections, they explore why so many people who once remained silent are now finding their voices, and what finally pushes individuals past fear, caution, and self-protection. 

The discussion examines the forces that keep people quiet—especially within Christian communities—and challenges the tendency to weigh personal risk more heavily than the harm caused by silence. 

The episode calls listeners to move beyond delayed outrage and performative concern toward courageous, faithful witness rooted in solidarity, truth-telling, and moral responsibility.

This week we talk about the recent autopsy reports that reveal the escalating brutality of ICE. Renee Goode’s autopsy revealed that she was shot four times in rapid succession. Another autopsy report this week revealed that the death of migrant Geraldo Lunas Campos, who was in ICE custody at an internment camp in Texas, was unlikely a suicide as the government claimed but caused by wounds consistent with strangling by a third party. A witness testified seeing Campos handcuffed, restrained by multiple guards who squeezed his neck until he passed out. We also emphasized that a small number of Republicans in Congress could potentially stop these immoral, harmful policies. We also discussed the ICE protest that interrupted a church service in Minnesota and the historical parallels between those actions and Civil Rights campaigns that targeted white churches in the 1960s. In the wake of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, we concluded by reflecting on the hope of his message and his faith that "right temporarily defeated is stronger than evil triumphant."

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Following our conversation last week about the senseless, unjustified killing of Renee Good by and ICE agent in Minneapolis, this week we bring you a special episode of The Convocation Unscripted with our first ever guest, Rev. Angela Denker. Angela is an ordained Lutheran pastor in Minneapolis (her full bio is below) and author of DISCIPLES OF WHITE JESUS: The Radicalization of American Boyhood. We’ve been fans of Angela’s courageous writing and preaching for years, and this week she gives us firsthand experience and reporting of the brutality and chaos that has been unleashed on Minneapolis residents by ICE and CBP, which combined now outnumber local city law enforcement by a factor of five. This invasion of an American city based on the thinnest pretext—over the protests of both the mayor and the governor—is a dress rehearsal for Trump’s dream of authoritarian rule across the country. Angela gives us both the horror and the hope from the faithful resistance. You don’t want to miss this one.

Rev. Angela Denker is an award-winning author, ELCA Lutheran pastor, and veteran journalist. Her first book, Red State Christians, was the 2019 Silver Foreword Indies award-winner for political and social sciences. Her second book, Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood, came out on March, 25, 2025. She is a former columnist for the Minnesota Star Tribune and has written for many publications, including Sports Illustrated, the Washington Post, and FORTUNE magazine, and has appeared on CNN, BBC, SkyNews, and NPR to share her research on politics and Christian Nationalism. Pastor Angela lives with her husband, Ben, and two sons in Minneapolis, where she is a sought-after speaker on Christian Nationalism and its theological and cultural roots. She also serves Lake Nokomis Lutheran Church in Minneapolis as Pastor of Visitation and Public Theology. You can read more of her work on Christian Nationalism, American culture, social issues, journalism, theology, and parenting on her Substack, I'm Listening.

Our first conversation of the year was a heavy one. We mourned the senseless, unjustified killing of Renee Good by and ICE agent in Minneapolis, noting that the chain of events that lead to her death is anchored in Trump’s racist lies about Somali immigrants. And we also warned that the $170 billion of our tax dollars that ICE received to dramatically expand operations on U.S. soil in 2026 will mean that this lie-fueled violence is likely coming to a community near you this year. We also saluted the Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey for courageous calling out the lies about both the situation in the city and about the circumstances of Good’s killing; the courageous clergy such as Rev. Angela Denker who are speaking out; and the everyday citizens who are standing up. We wrap by noting that Christian faithfulness in this regime will mean taking risks for justice and truth in 2026.
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Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com