The Dad Edge Podcast

Father Stephen Gadberry is a Catholic priest ordained in 2016 after a path that took him from a small family farm in the Arkansas Delta through the United States Air Force, a deployment to Iraq, and all the way to Rome to study philosophy and theology. He competed on American Ninja Warrior in 2018 and 2020, has worked alongside Bishop Robert Barron and Word on Fire, and currently serves at Saint Theresa Catholic Church and School in Little Rock, Arkansas.
In this conversation, Father Stephen opens up about losing his father and twelve-year-old sister in a car accident when he was just eight years old, how that tragedy shaped his understanding of duty and sacrifice, and what it felt like to receive his calling in the middle of a deployment in central Iraq. He is a hunter, archer, CrossFit athlete, knife maker, and musician who speaks about masculinity, suffering, and faith in a way that cuts through all the noise.
We also get into forgiveness in a way I have never heard anyone break it down before. Father Stephen uses the image of a plant to walk through the entire process of healing a broken relationship, from cultivating the soil, to planting the seed, to watching for weeds, to understanding why we pull back just when things start to feel close. It is pastoral counsel and practical wisdom at the same time.
This one hit me differently, guys. I am not kidding when I say I felt the weight of this conversation in my chest. If you have ever carried loss, wrestled with abandonment, or wondered how a man of deep faith actually lives out forgiveness in real time, this episode is for you.
 
Timeline Summary
[1:02] Father Stephen and the host kick off by acknowledging this is take two, after a tech failure ended the first recording
[1:55] Father Stephen explains his two appearances on American Ninja Warrior in 2018 and 2020 and what he was really trying to do with the cameras
[4:20] The meaning behind the priest collar explained: white for speaking truth, black for death to self
[6:07] Why traditions are not a threat to faith and how they are already woven into every man's life whether he realizes it or not
[7:16] How the American Ninja Warrior exposure broke down barriers and gave people an entry point to seek pastoral help with marriages and personal struggles
[13:25] Host introduces Father Stephen's background: raised on an Arkansas farm, lost his father and older sister at age eight in a car accident, later served in the Air Force and deployed to Iraq
[17:22] Father Stephen describes the accident on May 5th, 1994, the deaths of his father and twelve-year-old sister, and how a young boy without comprehension of the full weight woke up every day and simply got it done
[23:11] Two weeks after the accident, his mother discovered she was pregnant with twins, and the family's response to impossible circumstances
[28:18] The Christmas delivery story: neighbors who brought gifts for the family after the accident and did it with enough grace and class that no one's dignity was taken
[33:14] Father Stephen recalls warming up the minivan for his mother on cold Arkansas mornings as a child, and why the small act reveals a lifelong orientation toward serving others before himself
[37:10] The story of how the calling to priesthood emerged during military service in Iraq, including a stranger at Mass who said, "You're thinking about being a priest, aren't you?"
[43:30] How Father Stephen submitted his early separation paperwork from the Air Force and received approval in under two weeks, something that ordinarily takes months
[46:30] The host shares his own story of his biological father leaving twice and reconnecting at age thirty, and asks Father Stephen about what it means to forgive at 98% but still carry that last 2%
[52:07] The plant image of forgiveness: cultivating the soil, planting the seed, watching for weeds, and understanding that pulling things up too soon or too often kills what is trying to grow
[1:00:54] Father Stephen helps the host understand the subconscious pull-back pattern that shows up in relationships after early abandonment and how to reframe those defense mechanisms rather than fight them
[1:07:13] Closing thoughts and the little way of Saint Thérèse: do small things with big love, over and over
 
Five Key Takeaways
Losing his father and sister at age eight did not break Father Stephen. It built in him a sense of duty and commitment so deep that he woke up every morning as a boy simply asking what needed to be done, and that orientation toward others before self became the foundation of everything he does as a priest.

Sharing your humanity, not just your credentials, is what gives people permission to bring you their real problems. Father Stephen's Ninja Warrior appearances did not grow his ministry by making him impressive. They grew it by making him approachable.

Forgiveness is not a moment. It is a plant. You cultivate the soil, you plant the seed at the right time in the right way, and then you let it sit. Going back every day to dig it up and see if it grew will kill it. The healing comes from doing the work and then having the patience to let it take root.

Keeping a small part of unforgiveness is not a failure. It is memory. It is what tells you how to water the plant going forward, what burned it before, and what it needs to stay alive now. Forgetting is not the goal. Learning is.

The soul remembers what hurt it, and sometimes that shows up as pulling back right when something good is getting close. That is not sabotage. That is an old defense mechanism doing its job. The work is to recognize it, name it, and gently push its limits rather than either surrendering to it or shaming yourself for it.

 
Links & Resources
Follow Father Stephen on Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/fatherstephenjgadberry
Saint Theresa Catholic Church — https://www.sttheresalittlerock.org
This Episode's Show Page — https://thedadedge.com/1484
Join the Dad Edge — https://thedadedge.com/join
The Men's Forge — https://themensforge.com
 
Closing
Father Stephen gave us something rare in this conversation: the kind of honesty that only comes from a man who has sat with real pain long enough to have something true to say about it. If the plant image of forgiveness resonated with you the way it hit me, share this episode with a man in your life who is carrying something heavy and does not have the language for it yet. And if you got something out of this one, please take a minute to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more dads and more men find this show.
Go out and live legendary.

Jon Fogel is a parenting expert, pastor, published author, and PhD candidate who runs Whole Parent and Whole Parent Academy, a resource built around the psychology of parenting and discipline. He is the author of the bestselling book Punishment Free Parenting and a brand new children's book, Set My Feelings Free, which sold out nationwide before its second printing. He is a husband, father of four kids ranging from 18 months to nine years old, and somehow found time to install a toilet while his wife was in labor.
Jon has been a guest on The Dad Edge podcast twice before, and every single time he shows up, he leaves the room differently than he found it. This episode is a live Q&A inside the Alliance, and the questions the guys brought were real. Getting a spouse on the same page. The pendulum swing between authoritarian and checked-out. A five-year-old who looks you dead in the eye before he does the wrong thing on purpose. And the hard one: what happens when your son won't respond to you the way he responds to his mom.
Jon's framework is grounded in brain science and developmental psychology, and the thing that keeps hitting you as you listen is how much of what we were taught about discipline actually works against us. The reason kids shut down when we raise our voices is the same reason our partners shut down when we raise our voices. The reason kids push boundaries is not defiance. It's development. The reason your son runs to mom and not to you is not a reflection of your worth as a father. It's evolution.
If you're a dad who's been doing the work but still feels like something is off in how your kids or your partner respond to you, this episode is going to give you clarity in places you didn't expect to find it.
 
Timeline Summary
[1:01] Host introduces Jon Fogel for his third appearance, covering his role as a parenting expert, author, PhD candidate, and founder of Whole Parent Academy
[2:05] Jon describes his book Punishment Free Parenting, its bestseller status, and explains that 99% of the book is about what to do instead of punishing
[3:42] Jon's newest children's book Set My Feelings Free is sold out nationwide, with a second printing arriving May 20th
[4:02] First question from Rich: how to get a spouse on the same page when parenting backgrounds and styles are very different
[5:29] Jon explains why you should never try to correct a partner's parenting in the moment, and why the same brain science that applies to kids applies to adults
[8:11] Jon introduces the H.E.A.R. framework from Harvard for conflict resolution: Hedge, Emphasize agreement, Acknowledge perspective, Reframe to the positive
[10:55] Jon walks through each step of H.E.A.R. practically, showing how removing defensiveness creates space for the other person to move without feeling wrong
[14:07] Jon adds a bonus tactic: developing a safe word with your partner as a mutual tap-out when someone is getting too heated to parent effectively
[17:56] Second question from Chris: the pendulum swing between strict and disengaged, and why so many parents default to one or the other
[19:16] Jon reframes the boundary concept using the backyard fence metaphor: boundaries are not restrictions, they are the only structure that gives a child real freedom
[27:17] Third question: a five-year-old who deliberately pushes boundaries and throws food. Jon explains the difference between punishments, natural consequences, and logical consequences
[30:50] Jon explains that boundary-pushing at five is a developmental need, not defiance, and offers a practical redirection strategy using a popcorn bowl at dinner
[35:15] Anonymous question: son responds to mom and shuts down with dad. Jon addresses attachment hierarchy, enmeshment concerns, and why parents should largely stop parenting together
[40:10] Jon explains the science of attachment hierarchy and how kids are hardwired to default to one parent under threat. He clarifies that being second in the hierarchy does not mean you are failing
[44:46] Jon shares resources: Punishment Free Parenting, the children's book Set My Feelings Free, The Whole Parent Podcast, and an in-person event in Chicago on May 21st
 
Five Key Takeaways
The worst time to correct your partner's parenting is in the moment it's happening. The same science that tells us not to discipline a dysregulated child applies directly to adults. Wait for calm, get curious about the trigger, and then use the H.E.A.R. framework to address it without creating more defensiveness than you started with.

Boundaries are not restrictions. They are the structure that gives your child real freedom. A kid without clear boundaries does not feel free. They feel unsafe. The backyard fence metaphor Jon uses is worth sitting with: your job is to build the fence in the right place, not to police what happens inside it.

A five-year-old who looks you in the eye before doing something he knows you don't want is not being defiant. He is developing. At that age, differentiation is a biological need, and the act of doing something dad doesn't want is how he practices becoming his own person. Understanding that changes how you respond.

If your son responds better to his mom than to you, that is not an indictment of who you are as a father. Attachment hierarchy is hardwired and evolutionary. The solution is not to compete with mom in the room. It is to build a relationship with your son when she is not there.

Kids who do not have their need for autonomy met will meet that need in ways you will not like. Whether it is food at the dinner table, video games at 13, or behavior that seems to come out of nowhere, the question worth asking is: where else in his day does he get to make his own choices?

 
Links & Resources
Punishment Free Parenting by Jon Fogel — https://a.co/d/0hdOkJZl
Set My Feelings Free (children's book) — second printing available May 20th
In-person Chicago event with Jon Fogel and Eli Harwood — May 21st, downtown Chicago
How to Deal With Your Shirt So Your Kids Don't Have to by Eli Harwood
The Alliance — http://thedadedge.com/soulmates
The Men's Forge — http://themensforge.com/
Shownotes: http://thedadedge.com/1485
 
Closing
The question about attachment hierarchy near the end of this one is going to stay with me for a while. The image of your kid running toward one parent without thinking, faster than conscious thought, because their brain is trying to survive a threat — and knowing that which parent they run to has nothing to do with how hard you've worked or how much you love them — that's both humbling and freeing at the same time. Jon said it plainly: being in second place means you're in first place when the other person isn't there. Do the work. Show up. Take the alone time with your kids and build what only you can build with them. Go out and live legendary.

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Georgine Nanos — board certified family physician, founder of Kind Health Group and Kind TMS, and the first clinician in the world to successfully condense the 40-day TMS protocol into a single day.
TMS stands for transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's been FDA approved since 2008, has no long-term side effects, and uses magnetic field energy to create new synaptic pathways in the part of the brain where anxiety, depression, and PTSD get locked into negative stress loops. The Stanford trial that condensed it from 40 days to five days got a 90% response rate. Dr. Nanos condensed it further — to a single 12-hour day — and got the same results.
But this is not just a clinical episode. We talk about why men specifically have such a hard time reaching out, why burnout is a perfectly valid reason to pursue this, why the cop from the Bay Area who couldn't be present for his kids started playing drums again a month after treatment, and why the family almost always sees the improvement before the patient does.
Dr. Nanos also gets personal — she has mild anxiety and insomnia, was skeptical when she first tried TMS on herself, and has now done it multiple times since. Her kids describe her as chill. She credits the machine.
 
Timeline Summary
[0:00] Introduction to the Dad Edge mission and the movement to raise leaders of families and communities
[1:03] What TMS is — transcranial magnetic stimulation, FDA approved for 18 years, not electric shock therapy
[2:38] How negative stress loops form in the brain — and how TMS creates new synaptic pathways around them
[5:41] The difference between TMS and ECT — why TMS was born and why ECT is the last resort
[6:59] Why TMS hasn't gone mainstream — 40 days, insurance barriers, and older devices that were uncomfortable
[8:11] Stanford condenses it to five days and gets a 90% response rate — then Dr. Nanos condenses it to one
[10:05] The single-day protocol study — 34 patients, same results as Stanford, now being studied at UCLA and Harvard
[12:16] Response rate vs. remission — what the clinical measurements actually mean
[14:47] Introducing Dr. Nanos — Kind Health Group, Kind TMS, and refusing to stay inside the lines of traditional medicine
[17:15] What the experience actually feels like — comfortable table, dim lights, binaural beats, light tapping on the skull
[24:00] Why medication is only 40-50% effective for depression — and why TMS is a more targeted approach
[28:01] Men and mental health — the walk of shame, the fear of looking broken, and why burnout is a valid reason to come in
[30:44] High-functioning people at their last straw — midlife, peak career, aging parents, hormonal shifts, and the perfect storm
[31:40] What patients feel after the 12-hour day — tired, then slow incremental change, sleep improves first
[33:41] The Marine Corps veteran who felt agitated around his kids — and what changed after TMS
[35:58] TMS is scaffolding, not a silver bullet — you still have to do the climbing
[39:22] Who is a candidate — ages ten into their 90s, autism spectrum, teens, veterans, first responders
[43:25] The cop from the Bay Area — Iraq War veteran, suicide attempt in his past, couldn't be present for his kids
[45:23] He got the band back together — and his wife saw the change before he did
[47:27] What happens when patients relapse — booster sessions, obsessive follow up, and a year of ongoing care
[49:07] Insurance only covers the 40-day protocol — and only after failing 3-4 medications
[51:06] The price point — $12,000 for the full year of care including financing options and veteran programs
[54:07] Dr. Nanos did TMS on herself — skeptical at first, now does booster sessions every 6-7 months
 
Five Key Takeaways
TMS is not electric shock therapy. It is safe, FDA approved, has no long-term side effects, and has been around for 40 years. Most men have simply never heard of it.
You do not have to be in a mental health crisis to benefit from TMS. High-functioning men who feel flat, burned out, or not quite like themselves are exactly who this was designed for.
Burnout is a brain state, not a character flaw. The negative stress loops that build up over years of pressure, peak career, and family demands can be addressed — and the first thing that tends to improve is sleep.
TMS is scaffolding, not a silver bullet. It gives you the pathways to climb out of the hole. But you still have to do the work — therapy, exercise, and the lifestyle habits that keep the pathways open.
The people around you will see the change before you do. The cop's wife saw his improvement first. Dr. Nanos's kids noticed before she did. Your family is watching — and they want their dad back.
 
Links & Resources
Dad Edge Business Boardroom — June 1st cohort, applications open through May 31st: http://thedadedge.com/boardroom
Kind TMS website: https://kindtms.com
Kind Health Group: https://kindhealthgroup.com
Follow Dr. Nanos on Instagram: @doctorgeogienos
Kind TMS on Instagram: @kindtms
Call Kind TMS directly: (760) 701-5463
Episode Link & Resources (Episode 1482): https://thedadedge.com/1482
 
Closing
If there's one message from this episode that stands out, it's this: you do not have to keep white-knuckling it through life.
The cop from the Bay Area was drowning in silence — a past suicide attempt, a demanding job, young kids, aging parents, and nowhere to put any of it. One month after treatment, he's playing drums again. His wife sees it. His kids feel it.
That is what is possible when a man stops waiting until it gets bad enough and starts asking what getting better actually looks like.
Go out and live legendary.

In this episode, I sit down with Lee Benson — entrepreneur, founder of eight companies, former CEO of Abel Aerospace (which he grew from 2 to 500 employees serving customers in 60 countries before a nine-figure exit in 2016), and now CEO of Dinner Table, a free global community of over 40,000 parents from 67 countries built around one idea: teaching families how to intentionally create value together.
Lee's story starts where most don't — kicked out of his house at 18 with his clothes in paper grocery bags, a car he bought himself, a job cooking at Coco's, and a credit card debt his parents had secretly run up in his name. He went from negative zero to building one of the most successful aerospace companies in the country. And he has spent the last decade trying to figure out how to give every family — especially the ones starting from nothing — the framework that changes everything.
We get into the monthly family meeting, what it actually covers, and why giving every member of the family — including the six-year-old — a job and a line item in the budget changes behavior almost instantly. We talk about finding your kids' value creation superpowers, what it means to show up with someone's potential instead of their performance, and why Lee's business partner Jack Welch was one of only two people in his entire life who ever made him feel that way.
And Lee drops one of the most clarifying lines this show has ever heard: I believe in unconditional love. I do not believe in unconditional relationships.
 
Timeline Summary
[0:00] Introduction to the Dad Edge mission and the movement to raise leaders of families and communities
[1:03] Kicked out at 18 — paper bags on the patio, locks changed, one night in a Chevy Blazer
[2:19] The credit cards his parents ran up in his name — and why he paid them off instead of turning them in
[3:46] Generational dysfunction, siblings lost in it, and why unconditional love does not mean unconditional relationships
[5:17] Why being kicked out may have been the best thing that ever happened to him
[8:11] Building a chosen family — 40-plus years later, one of his "kids" is staying at his house with his own family
[10:06] The rules of engagement — how Lee maintains relationships with difficult family members without enabling them
[15:52] Introducing Lee — Abel Aerospace, nine-figure exit, and now CEO of Dinner Table
[17:18] The monthly family meeting — family goals, everybody's job, budget review, and what it means to be a leader in the family
[20:17] Giving the six-year-old a line item in the budget — and what happened when the kids saw how much Dutch Brothers was costing
[21:34] If there's money left over, the kids decide where it goes — including Yellowstone with no technology for a week
[22:14] The one-on-one meeting with each kid — how would you like to create value in the world?
[25:31] Why Lee calls it a huddle instead of a meeting — and how language changes everything
[27:50] The nine-year-old who looked up and said "I have a job for the family" — with pride
[28:52] The two people in Lee's entire life who showed up with his potential — and why that is so rare
[30:20] Larry's version — the mentor who always referenced Larry 1.0 vs. Larry 2.0 behavior
[33:01] How to ask a ten-year-old about value creation without losing them — and what to do with "I like video games"
[39:16] Three types of struggle — normal and healthy, struggle that needs support, and struggle to avoid entirely
[48:32] The mom whose three boys cook dinner six nights a week — and why that one job changed everything for her
[51:26] The difference between adding value and creating value — and why that distinction matters for your kids
[56:06] What we say vs. what we model — and why cutting yourself down in front of your kids cancels every "you can be anything" you've ever said
 
Five Key Takeaways
I believe in unconditional love. I do not believe in unconditional relationships. Love without limits does not mean relationships without rules of engagement — and confusing the two enables the very behavior you're trying to change.
The monthly family meeting changes behavior almost instantly. When kids have a job for the family, a line item in the budget, and a seat at the table — they stop needing to be told ten times. They're already in.
Show up with your kid's potential, not their current performance. The two people Lee remembers most weren't impressed by his resume. They saw what he could become. That's the standard.
What you say and what you model are two completely different messages. If you tell your kids they can be anything and then cut yourself down in front of them, they are listening to your actions — not your words.
Value creation is a family sport. The earlier you start the conversation — what are your interests, how do you want to show up in the world, what does it mean to be a leader in this family — the more momentum your kids build on their own before they leave home.
 
Links & Resources
Dad Edge Business Boardroom — June 1st cohort, applications open May 21–31: http://thedadedge.com/boardroom
Value Creation Family by Lee Benson: https://www.amazon.com/Value-Creation-Family-Playbook-Setting/dp/1636805981
Dinner Table community (free, 40,000+ parents, 67 countries): https://dinnertable.com
Episode Link & Resources (Episode 1480): https://thedadedge.com/1480
 
Closing
If there's one message from this episode that stands out, it's this: you can start from anywhere and go everywhere — but only if your belief system allows it.
Lee Benson started from negative zero. No father. A toxic home. Credit card debt in his name before he ever had a job. And he built something extraordinary — not because he had a blueprint, but because he believed a different future was possible and did the work to build it.
Now he's building that blueprint for everyone else. One family meeting at a time.
Go out and live legendary.

In this episode, Brandon Webb — Navy SEAL, former sniper instructor, and author of the brand new parenting book Puddle Jumpers — joins a live Dad Edge Alliance Q&A to answer real questions from real dads. No filters, no talking points. Just a man who has raised three extraordinary kids through divorce, business failure, and years of hard-won parenting lessons, going deep on the questions most dads are quietly carrying.
The questions cover everything — what to tell your younger self as a new dad, how to act vs. wait when stakes are high, how to build confidence and resilience in your kids without SEAL-level pressure, how to get a reluctant 12-year-old to open up, what ordinary magic looks like in everyday parenting, and how to co-parent well when your ex has moved on and moved away.
Brandon's philosophy is simple, practical, and backed by research: get to the why before you drop the hammer, let your kids do small hard things on their own, teach them to use their voice rather than your own, and remember that your voice will become their inner voice. He also drops one of the most memorable parenting wins on the show — a handwritten note from his 22-year-old daughter that he read four or five times and has carried ever since.
 
Timeline Summary
[0:00] Introduction to the Dad Edge Alliance Q&A — and why this is what happens inside the Alliance every month
[3:33] How Puddle Jumpers came to be — three kids, a divorce, a business failure, and strangers asking Brandon for advice
[6:12] The mud puddle that gave the book its name — and the kind of dad Brandon decided to be in that moment
[8:29] Q1: What would you tell your younger self as a new father?
[9:22] Lead with love, be present, and choose quality over quantity — especially when you don't have much time
[11:16] Say sorry. Own your mistakes in front of your kids. They're watching conflict resolution in real time.
[13:36] Q2: How do you decide when to act vs. wait when stakes are high and you don't have full clarity?
[14:10] Get to the why of the behavior before you punish — the checklist Brandon uses from his SEAL days
[16:11] The teacher who publicly humiliated his son — and why Brandon and his ex took their son's side and pulled him out
[19:43] Getting to the core driver of the behavior before you act is the most important move a parent can make
[23:29] Q3: How do you build resilience and confidence in kids without SEAL-level pressure?
[24:36] Positive psychology from the sniper course — paint the picture of what to do, not what to stop doing
[25:46] Your voice becomes their inner voice — choose what you want living in their head
[27:00] Ordinary magic — letting kids do small tasks alone is how confidence gets built over time
[27:54] The Portland airport and the soccer team selfies — what happens when you make your kid ask for himself
[30:11] Q4: My 12-year-old is reluctant to open up — how do I get him to talk?
[31:01] Never sit them down at the kitchen table — do it in the car, on a walk, shooting hoops
[32:13] Ask ten times if you need to. Peel the layers back slowly and never make it confrontational.
[33:01] Ask better questions — Brandon has a full reference guide in the back of Puddle Jumpers
[45:00] Q5: How do you navigate divorce and still raise great kids?
[45:21] The psychologist who changed everything — happy mom, happy kids. Default to that when you're triggered.
[48:28] Agree up front to put the kids first and police your own family from choosing sides
[57:15] Get a PhD-level psychologist to help — not just a counselor. It's the best money Brandon ever spent.
[1:00:40] Lead by example, speak positively about your ex, and trust that your kids are watching everything
 
Five Key Takeaways
Get to the why before you punish. The behavior is a symptom — and if you react to the symptom without understanding the cause, you can push your kid away in ways that take years to repair.
Your voice becomes their inner voice. Think about how you want to be heard inside your child's head ten years from now. That is the standard your daily words have to meet.
Ordinary magic is how confidence is built. Letting your kids tie their own shoes, order their own food, and ask for their own autograph — these tiny moments accumulate into a kid who believes they can handle the world.
Never have the hard conversation sitting down face to face. Do it in the car. On a walk. Shooting hoops. Kids open up when their body is moving and the pressure is off.
If the co-parenting relationship is not adversarial, you're already ahead of the curve. Protect that at all costs. Police your own family. Speak positively about your ex. Your kids are watching you model how adults handle hard things.
 
Links & Resources
Dad Edge Alliance — join now and get a free signed copy of The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood plus two bonus courses: https://thedadedge.com/join
Car Questions — Connect With Your Kids in the Car: https://thedadedge.com/car-questions-connect-with-your-kids-in-the-car/
Puddle Jumpers by Brandon Webb: https://www.amazon.com/Puddle-Jumpers-Simple-Proven-Confident/dp/B0FWZZKJN6
Brandon Webb's website: https://brandontylerwebb.com
Episode Link & Resources (Episode 1481): https://thedadedge.com/1481
 
Closing
If there's one message from this episode that stands out, it's this: your kids are paying attention to everything — especially when you think they're not.
Brandon Webb raised three extraordinary kids through divorce, business failure, deployments, and more than a few mistakes. And the letter his daughter left him before he came to New York — the one he read four or five times and still carries — is proof that the work is worth it.
Be present. Get to the why. Let them do hard things on their own. And speak the words you want living inside their heads.
Go out and live legendary.