Trust & Influence in B2B

In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Tom Rudnai, Founder of Demand Genius and author of the Dark AI study — a research project that analyzed hundreds of AI prompt clusters across major B2B categories to map where brands are truly winning and losing influence. Tom's central finding is as counterintuitive as it is urgent: the more boldly a brand claims to be the best, the more likely AI is to quietly sideline it during the buyer conversations that shape outcomes. So where is influence actually earned in an AI-led world — and what should B2B marketers be doing differently?
➡️ Tom cuts through the noise with sharp, data-grounded thinking on why AI is not a search channel — and why treating it like one is one of the most costly mistakes in B2B marketing today. He introduces the "Dark AI" concept: the 84% of buyer conversations where no brand gets cited, yet where the problem framing, requirements, and shortlist criteria are already being quietly formed. He unpacks how AI enters exploratory mode at the top of the funnel — and why confident, directive brand language fails at the exact moment influence is most available. He also lays out the concept of information gain, arguing that original research, clear perspectives, and genuinely new knowledge are now the highest-value signals a brand can produce. From convergence patterns to what to actually measure, this conversation will challenge how you think about authority, content, and trust in modern B2B.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction: Why Bold Positioning Can Backfire in AI Search
02:08 - Tom's Background and the Story Behind Demand Genius
03:59 - How Buyers Use AI Differently from Traditional Search
06:16 - The Dark AI Study: What It Measured and What It Found
10:30 - AI Visibility vs. AI Influence: The Iceberg Explained
13:18 - Convergence: How AI Narrows Down to a Recommendation
18:38 - Information Gain: The New North Star for B2B Content
22:11 - Why Confident Category Claims Fail in AI-Led Journeys
25:28 - What B2B Marketers Should Actually Be Measuring
30:49 - Patterns Across Categories and AI Models
33:22 - The One Takeaway Every Marketer Should Remember
Follow Tom Rudnai,
linkedin.com/in/tomrudnai
demandgenius.ai
If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.
🌐Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬What do you think comes first—insightful data or a compelling story? Let us know in the comments below.
🔔Subscribe to the channel for weekly insights, interviews, and on-the-ground perspectives from the world of B2B marketing. https://youtube.com/@JoelHarrison-B2B?sub_confirmation=1

📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web:
LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/
Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/
Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/

#JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #AISearch, #DarkAI, #AEO, #BuyerJourney, #InformationGain, #B2BGrowth, #AIMarketing, #DemandGeneration

In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Professor Laura Chamberlain, Professor of Marketing at the University of Warwick and Founder of Think Talk Thrive. They tackle one of the most pressing questions in the profession right now: Do we still need junior marketers—and if so, what do we owe them? As AI absorbs entry-level tasks and graduate vacancies continue to shrink, is marketing quietly destroying its own talent pipeline?
➡️ Laura draws on years of teaching across every level of the profession—from undergraduates to C-suite executives—to challenge the notion that AI can simply replace junior roles. She makes a compelling case that young professionals bring far more than cheap labour: native AI fluency, cultural proximity, fresh thinking, and an eagerness that senior hires can't replicate. She and Joel explore how the erosion of mentorship, rising imposter phenomenon among 18–25-year-olds, and the compression of entry-level roles are creating a long-horizon crisis no single company will feel—until it's far too late. If you're in any way responsible for building or leading a marketing team, this episode will challenge how you think about who you hire, how you develop them, and what the profession stands to lose if we keep pulling the ladder up behind us.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction: The Junior Marketer Crisis
02:06 - Laura's Background and Teaching Perspective
03:13 - Is Marketing a Career Young People Choose or Fall Into?
06:29 - What's Preoccupying Students Entering the Profession
09:48 - The Graduate Jobs Squeeze and AI's Role
11:37 - Debunking the "We Don't Need Juniors" Narrative
14:31 - What Young Professionals Uniquely Bring to Marketing Teams
17:20 - The Case for Mentorship and Why It's Breaking Down
23:42 - How Junior Marketers Learn Without Entry-Level Tasks
25:42 - Learning to Be Strategic: The New Junior Skillset
30:06 - Specialists vs. Generalists in Marketing Education
34:51 - Are Young People Better or Worse at Using AI?
39:33 - The Long-Term Cost of Abandoning Junior Talent
41:09 - What Needs to Change: Laura's Call to Action

Follow Laura Chamberlain

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lmchamberlain/
If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.

🌐Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬What do you think comes first—investing in junior talent or letting AI fill the gap? Let us know in the comments below.
🔔Subscribe to the channel for weekly insights, interviews, and on-the-ground perspectives from the world of B2B marketing. https://youtube.com/@JoelHarrison-B2B?sub_confirmation=1

📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web:
LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/
Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/
Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/

#JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #JuniorMarketers, #MarketingTalent, #AIinMarketing, #MarketingEducation, #EarlyCareer, #FutureOfMarketing, #MarketingMentorship, #TalentPipeline

In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Kate Hassler, Group Director of Brand and Comms at Access Group—a $9 billion global B2B software company serving 160,000 customers across Europe, Asia, and the Americas. While headlines scream of AI-driven redundancies at tech giants, Access Group took the opposite approach: hiring more people, running company-wide hackathons, and building a culture where AI is simply business as usual. So what does a genuinely human-led AI transformation actually look like from the inside?
➡️ Kate walks through every stage of Access Group's journey—from pockets of shadow AI usage and no formal governance, to enterprise Claude licenses with custom brand skills built in. She reveals the story behind the now-legendary "AI bus" metaphor that united 9,000 employees around a single, simple idea, and explains how structured playtime - not mandates - turned the biggest sceptics into the most vocal champions. She digs into why Access chose to protect junior talent rather than cut it, how one senior designer reinvented himself as an AI strategist, and why the "human at the start, human at the end" principle is what separates meaningful content from AI slop. Whether you're a marketing leader navigating an AI rollout or just trying to get your team over the line, Kate's blueprint is grounded, practical, and genuinely inspiring.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction: AI and the B2B Marketing Workplace
02:12 - Kate Hassler and Access Group Overview
04:03 - Company-Wide AI as a Strategic Priority
07:26 - The London Bus Metaphor: Origin and Impact
11:04 - Why the Metaphor Has Endured a Year On
12:32 - From Shadow AI to Structured Adoption
14:33 - Copilot, Claude, and the Licensing Journey
17:27 - Building Custom Claude Brand Skills
19:00 - Human at the Start, Human at the End
21:14 - Hackathons, Play, and AI Champions
25:37 - Job Security and Empathy-Led Leadership
28:07 - Splash Maker: A Creative Reinvents as Strategist
32:49 - Biggest Lessons from 12 Months of AI Transformation
36:37 - Junior Talent and the Future Pipeline

Follow Kate Hassler https://linkedin.com/in/kate-hassler https://www.theaccessgroup.com

If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.
🌐Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬What do you think comes first—getting your team on board with AI, or putting the governance in place? Let us know in the comments below.
🔔Subscribe to the channel for weekly insights, interviews, and on-the-ground perspectives from the world of B2B marketing. https://youtube.com/@JoelHarrison-B2B?sub_confirmation=1

📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web:
LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/
Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/
Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/

#JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #AIAdoption, #AIInMarketing, #MarketingLeadership, #AITransformation, #FutureOfWork, #CreativeServices, #B2BTech

In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Tejal Patel, Independent Marketing Consultant and former marketing leader at Cisco, Microsoft, and Nokia. Together, they examine how B2B technology marketing is changing as AI reshapes content creation and digital channels become more saturated than ever. Using exclusive insights from B2B Marketing Awards data, they reveal four emerging trends that are helping leading brands stand out in an increasingly crowded marketplace.
➡️ Tejal explains why marketers are moving beyond traditional buyer personas and investing more heavily in developers, practitioners, employees, and advocates who influence purchasing decisions from within. The conversation explores the growing importance of employee advocacy, experiential marketing, proof-of-concept campaigns, and highly targeted direct mail programs that cut through digital noise. They also discuss why trust, authenticity, and human experiences are becoming more valuable competitive advantages—and why many marketing measurement frameworks may be preventing organizations from fully embracing these strategies.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction and Why Tech Marketing Leads B2B Innovation
01:23 - Meet Tejal Patel and the Rise of Human-Centric Marketing
05:21 - The Shift Toward Internal Influencers and Practitioner Audiences
10:22 - Why Marketers Are Targeting Doers Instead of Decision-Makers
12:15 - The Measurement Challenge Behind Long-Term Marketing Success
14:02 - Employee Advocacy and Authentic Brand Influence
16:51 - Proof of Concept as a Marketing Campaign
18:01 - Why Demonstration Beats Persuasion
20:52 - Quality Over Quantity in Modern B2B Marketing
23:19 - The Growth of Experiential and Sensory Marketing
25:11 - What Gen Z Buyers Teach Us About Engagement
27:29 - Creating Experiences That Prove Value
31:13 - Building Impactful Experiences on Smaller Budgets
33:53 - The Return of Direct Mail in B2B
37:21 - Has Digital Marketing Lost Its Distinction?
39:59 - The One Thing Marketing Leaders Should Change Today
42:34 - Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks
Follow Tejal Patel
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tejal/
https://tejalpatel.co.uk/
If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It’s honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.
🌐 Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬 What do you think will matter more in the future of B2B marketing—AI-powered efficiency or human-centered experiences?
🔔 Subscribe for more conversations with the marketers, leaders, and innovators shaping the future of B2B.

📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web:
LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/
Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/
Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/

#JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #TechMarketing, #ExperientialMarketing, #EmployeeAdvocacy, #ABM, #DemandGeneration, #MarketingInnovation, #MarketingLeadership, #CustomerExperience

In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Brian Macreadie, Head of Marketing at Addleshaw Goddard, one of the UK's most creatively ambitious international law firms. Brian reveals how his team did something no legal firm had ever done before—becoming the first-ever official legal partner of the RHS Chelsea Flower Show—and built a full-funnel campaign around it called Flourish in the City. Could flowers, billboards, and a garden at Chelsea really deliver 350% ROI and 40 new clients in under a year?
➡️ With over 30 years of B2B marketing experience across telecoms, media, and legal, Brian doesn't just talk about creativity—he proves it pays. He breaks down the strategic thinking behind Flourish in the City: why a noisy, content-saturated legal market demanded something radically different, and how a single emotionally resonant idea can anchor an entire integrated campaign. From 19 digital billboards at Bank and London Bridge, to handing flowers to city commuters, to hosting 400+ VIP clients across 57 intimate Chelsea events—this is full-funnel B2B marketing at its boldest. Brian also tackles the harder questions: how do you build internal buy-in for long-term, creative marketing investment? How do brand and ABM complement rather than compete? And what does it really take to build the kind of trust that turns one conversation into a 25-year client relationship? His two golden rules haven't changed in 30 years—and they're more relevant than ever.
Chapters:
00:00 Podcast Welcome
00:30 Meet Brian McCredie
00:55 Inside the London Office
02:01 Flourish in the City
03:50 Episode Learning Goals
04:36 Brian Career Journey
05:40 Why Legal Needs Creativity
07:19 About Addleshaw Goddard
08:33 The Attention Problem
09:55 Trust and Top of Mind
11:58 Why Chelsea Flower Show
13:34 Authentic Brand Fit
16:28 Pilot Proof and Client Love
17:39 Behind the Scenes at Chelsea
19:17 Flourish in the City
21:05 Making the Long Term Case
23:22 Sponsorship as Full Funnel
25:06 VIP Events at Chelsea
27:54 Citywide Media Blitz
31:31 Measuring Impact and ROI
33:16 Building Creative Buy In
36:08 Results and Payback
37:18 Transferable Marketing Lessons
40:17 Final Takeaways and Close

Follow Brian Macreadie,
https://linkedin.com/in/bmacreadie?originalSubdomain=uk
https://addleshawgoddard.com
If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership—whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.
🌐Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬What do you think comes first—insightful data or a compelling story? Let us know in the comments below.
🔔Subscribe to the channel for weekly insights, interviews, and on-the-ground perspectives from the world of B2B marketing. https://youtube.com/@JoelHarrison-B2B?sub_confirmation=1

📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web: LinkedIn
▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/ Podcast
▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/ Instagram
▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/

#JoelHarrisonB2B, #B2BMarketing, #ThoughtLeadership, #ContentStrategy, #MarketingTrends, #B2BContent, #BrandVsDemand, #Storytelling, #MarketingPodcast, #B2BInsights, #JoelHarrison, #B2BVideos, #B2BStrategy, #LegalMarketing, #B2BCreativity, #SponsorshipMarketing, #FullFunnelMarketing, #BrandBuilding, #B2BEvents, #IntegratedMarketing