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Data Engineering Podcast

Tobias Macey
Data Engineering Podcast
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  • The True Costs of Legacy Systems: Technical Debt, Risk, and Exit Strategies
    SummaryIn this episode Kate Shaw, Senior Product Manager for Data and SLIM at SnapLogic, talks about the hidden and compounding costs of maintaining legacy systems—and practical strategies for modernization. She unpacks how “legacy” is less about age and more about when a system becomes a risk: blocking innovation, consuming excess IT time, and creating opportunity costs. Kate explores technical debt, vendor lock-in, lost context from employee turnover, and the slippery notion of “if it ain’t broke,” especially when data correctness and lineage are unclear. Shee digs into governance, observability, and data quality as foundations for trustworthy analytics and AI, and why exit strategies for system retirement should be planned from day one. The discussion covers composable architectures to avoid monoliths and big-bang migrations, how to bridge valuable systems into AI initiatives without lock-in, and why clear success criteria matter for AI projects. Kate shares lessons from the field on discovery, documentation gaps, parallel run strategies, and using integration as the connective tissue to unlock data for modern, cloud-native and AI-enabled use cases. She closes with guidance on planning migrations, defining measurable outcomes, ensuring lineage and compliance, and building for swap-ability so teams can evolve systems incrementally instead of living with a “bowl of spaghetti.”AnnouncementsHello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Kate Shaw about the true costs of maintaining legacy systemsInterviewIntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?What are your crtieria for when a given system or service transitions to being "legacy"?In order for any service to survive long enough to become "legacy" it must be serving its purpose and providing value. What are the common factors that prompt teams to deprecate or migrate systems?What are the sources of monetary cost related to maintaining legacy systems while they remain operational?Beyond monetary cost, economics also have a concept of "opportunity cost". What are some of the ways that manifests in data teams who are maintaining or migrating from legacy systems?How does that loss of productivity impact the broader organization?How does the process of migration contribute to issues around data accuracy, reliability, etc. as well as contributing to potential compromises of security and compliance?Once a system has been replaced, it needs to be retired. What are some of the costs associated with removing a system from service?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen teams address the costs of legacy systems and their retirement?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on legacy systems migration?When is deprecation/migration the wrong choice?How have evolutionary architecture patterns helped to mitigate the costs of system retirement?Contact InfoLinkedInParting QuestionFrom your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing AnnouncementsThank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.__init__ covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.LinksSnapLogicSLIM == SnapLogic Intelligent ModernizerOpportunity CostSunk Cost FallacyData GovernanceEvolutionary ArchitectureThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
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  • Context Engineering as a Discipline: Building Governed AI Analytics
    SummaryIn this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast, host Tobias Macey welcomes back Nick Schrock, CTO and founder of Dagster Labs, to discuss Compass - a Slack-native, agentic analytics system designed to keep data teams connected with business stakeholders. Nick shares his journey from initial skepticism to embracing agentic AI as model and application advancements made it practical for governed workflows, and explores how Compass redefines the relationship between data teams and stakeholders by shifting analysts into steward roles, capturing and governing context, and integrating with Slack where collaboration already happens. The conversation covers organizational observability through Compass's conversational system of record, cost control strategies, and the implications of agentic collaboration on Conway's Law, as well as what's next for Compass and Nick's optimistic views on AI-accelerated software engineering.AnnouncementsHello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Nick Schrock about building an AI analyst that keeps data teams in the loopInterviewIntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you describe what Compass is and the story behind it?context repository structurehow to keep it relevant/avoid sprawl/duplicationproviding guardrailshow does a tool like Compass help provide feedback/insights back to the data teams?preparing the data warehouse for effective introspection by the AILLM selectioncost managementcaching/materializing ad-hoc queriesWhy Slack and enterprise chat are important to b2b softwareHow AI is changing stakeholder relationshipsHow not to overpromise AI capabilities How does Compass relate to BI?How does Compass relate to Dagster and Data Infrastructure?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen Compass used?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on Compass?When is Compass the wrong choice?What do you have planned for the future of Compass?Contact InfoLinkedInParting QuestionFrom your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing AnnouncementsThank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.__init__ covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.LinksDagsterDagster LabsDagster PlusDagster CompassChris Bergh DataOps EpisodeRise of Medium Code blog postContext EngineeringData StewardInformation ArchitectureConway's LawTemporal durable execution frameworkThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
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  • The Data Model That Captures Your Business: Metric Trees Explained
    SummaryIn this episode of the Data Engineering Podcast Vijay Subramanian, founder and CEO of Trace, talks about metric trees - a new approach to data modeling that directly captures a company's business model. Vijay shares insights from his decade-long experience building data practices at Rent the Runway and explains how the modern data stack has led to a proliferation of dashboards without a coherent way for business consumers to reason about cause, effect, and action. He explores how metric trees differ from and interoperate with other data modeling approaches, serve as a backend for analytical workflows, and provide concrete examples like modeling Uber's revenue drivers and customer journeys. Vijay also discusses the potential of AI agents operating on metric trees to execute workflows, organizational patterns for defining inputs and outputs with business teams, and a vision for analytics that becomes invisible infrastructure embedded in everyday decisions.AnnouncementsHello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Vijay Subramanian about metric trees and how they empower more effective and adaptive analyticsInterviewIntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you describe what metric trees are and their purpose?How do metric trees relate to metric/semantic layers?What are the shortcomings of existing data modeling frameworks that prevent effective use of those assets?How do metric trees build on top of existing investments in dimensional data models?What are some strategies for engaging with the business to identify metrics and their relationships?What are your recommendations for storage, representation, and retrieval of metric trees?How do metric trees fit into the overall lifecycle of organizational data workflows?When creating any new data asset it introduces overhead of maintenance, monitoring, and evolution. How do metric trees fit into existing testing and validation frameworks that teams rely on for dimensional modeling?What are some of the key differences in useful evaluation/testing that teams need to develop for metric trees?How do metric trees assist in context engineering for AI-powered self-serve access to organizational data?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen metric trees used?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on metric trees and operationalizing them at Trace?When is a metric tree the wrong abstraction?What do you have planned for the future of Trace and applications of metric trees?Contact InfoLinkedInParting QuestionFrom your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing AnnouncementsThank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.__init__ covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.LinksMetric TreeTraceModern Data StackHadoopVerticaLuigidbtRalph KimballBill InmonMetric LayerDimensional Data WarehouseMaster Data ManagementData GovernanceFinancial P&L (Profit and Loss)EBITDA ==Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortizationThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
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  • From GPUs-as-a-Service to Workloads-as-a-Service: Flex AI’s Path to High-Utilization AI Infra
    SummaryIn this crossover episode of the AI Engineering Podcast, host Tobias Macey interviews Brijesh Tripathi, CEO of Flex AI, about revolutionizing AI engineering by removing DevOps burdens through "workload as a service". Brijesh shares his expertise from leading AI/HPC architecture at Intel and deploying supercomputers like Aurora, highlighting how access friction and idle infrastructure slow progress. Join them as they discuss Flex AI's innovative approach to simplifying heterogeneous compute, standardizing on consistent Kubernetes layers, and abstracting inference across various accelerators, allowing teams to iterate faster without wrestling with drivers, libraries, or cloud-by-cloud differences. Brijesh also shares insights into Flex AI's strategies for lifting utilization, protecting real-time workloads, and spanning the full lifecycle from fine-tuning to autoscaled inference, all while keeping complexity at bay.Pre-ambleI hope you enjoy this cross-over episode of the AI Engineering Podcast, another show that I run to act as your guide to the fast-moving world of building scalable and maintainable AI systems. As generative AI models have grown more powerful and are being applied to a broader range of use cases, the lines between data and AI engineering are becoming increasingly blurry. The responsibilities of data teams are being extended into the realm of context engineering, as well as designing and supporting new infrastructure elements that serve the needs of agentic applications. This episode is an example of the types of work that are not easily categorized into one or the other camp.AnnouncementsHello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details. Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Brijesh Tripathi about FlexAI, a platform offering a service-oriented abstraction for AI workloadsInterviewIntroductionHow did you get involved in machine learning?Can you describe what FlexAI is and the story behind it?What are some examples of the ways that infrastructure challenges contribute to friction in developing and operating AI applications?How do those challenges contribute to issues when scaling new applications/businesses that are founded on AI?There are numerous managed services and deployable operational elements for operationalizing AI systems. What are some of the main pitfalls that teams need to be aware of when determining how much of that infrastructure to own themselves?Orchestration is a key element of managing the data and model lifecycles of these applications. How does your approach of "workload as a service" help to mitigate some of the complexities in the overall maintenance of that workload?Can you describe the design and architecture of the FlexAI platform?How has the implementation evolved from when you first started working on it?For someone who is going to build on top of FlexAI, what are the primary interfaces and concepts that they need to be aware of?Can you describe the workflow of going from problem to deployment for an AI workload using FlexAI?One of the perennial challenges of making a well-integrated platform is that there are inevitably pre-existing workloads that don't map cleanly onto the assumptions of the vendor. What are the affordances and escape hatches that you have built in to allow partial/incremental adoption of your service?What are the elements of AI workloads and applications that you are explicitly not trying to solve for?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen FlexAI used?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on FlexAI?When is FlexAI the wrong choice?What do you have planned for the future of FlexAI?Contact InfoLinkedInParting QuestionFrom your perspective, what are the biggest gaps in tooling, technology, or training for AI systems today?LinksFlex AIAurora Super ComputerCoreWeaveKubernetesCUDAROCmTensor Processing Unit (TPU)PyTorchTritonTrainiumASIC == Application Specific Integrated CircuitSOC == System On a ChipLoveableFlexAI BlueprintsTenstorrentThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
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  • From RAG to Relational: How Agentic Patterns Are Reshaping Data Architecture
    SummaryIn this episode of the AI Engineering Podcast Mark Brooker, VP and Distinguished Engineer at AWS, talks about how agentic workflows are transforming database usage and infrastructure design. He discusses the evolving role of data in AI systems, from traditional models to more modern approaches like vectors, RAG, and relational databases. Mark explains why agents require serverless, elastic, and operationally simple databases, and how AWS solutions like Aurora and DSQL address these needs with features such as rapid provisioning, automated patching, geodistribution, and spiky usage. The conversation covers topics including tool calling, improved model capabilities, state in agents versus stateless LLM calls, and the role of Lambda and AgentCore for long-running, session-isolated agents. Mark also touches on the shift from local MCP tools to secure, remote endpoints, the rise of object storage as a durable backplane, and the need for better identity and authorization models. The episode highlights real-world patterns like agent-driven SQL fuzzing and plan analysis, while identifying gaps in simplifying data access, hardening ops for autonomous systems, and evolving serverless database ergonomics to keep pace with agentic development.AnnouncementsHello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data managementData teams everywhere face the same problem: they're forcing ML models, streaming data, and real-time processing through orchestration tools built for simple ETL. The result? Inflexible infrastructure that can't adapt to different workloads. That's why Cash App and Cisco rely on Prefect. Cash App's fraud detection team got what they needed - flexible compute options, isolated environments for custom packages, and seamless data exchange between workflows. Each model runs on the right infrastructure, whether that's high-memory machines or distributed compute. Orchestration is the foundation that determines whether your data team ships or struggles. ETL, ML model training, AI Engineering, Streaming - Prefect runs it all from ingestion to activation in one platform. Whoop and 1Password also trust Prefect for their data operations. If these industry leaders use Prefect for critical workflows, see what it can do for you at dataengineeringpodcast.com/prefect.Data migrations are brutal. They drag on for months—sometimes years—burning through resources and crushing team morale. Datafold's AI-powered Migration Agent changes all that. Their unique combination of AI code translation and automated data validation has helped companies complete migrations up to 10 times faster than manual approaches. And they're so confident in their solution, they'll actually guarantee your timeline in writing. Ready to turn your year-long migration into weeks? Visit dataengineeringpodcast.com/datafold today for the details.Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Marc Brooker about the impact of agentic workflows on database usage patterns and how they change the architectural requirements for databasesInterviewIntroductionHow did you get involved in the area of data management?Can you describe what the role of the database is in agentic workflows?There are numerous types of databases, with relational being the most prevalent. How does the type and purpose of an agent inform the type of database that should be used?Anecdotally I have heard about how agentic workloads have become the predominant "customers" of services like Neon and Fly.io. How would you characterize the different patterns of scale for agentic AI applications? (e.g. proliferation of agents, monolithic agents, multi-agent, etc.)What are some of the most significant impacts on workload and access patterns for data storage and retrieval that agents introduce?What are the categorical differences in that behavior as compared to programmatic/automated systems?You have spent a substantial amount of time on Lambda at AWS. Given that LLMs are effectively stateless, how does the added ephemerality of serverless functions impact design and performance considerations around having to "re-hydrate" context when interacting with agents?What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen serverless and database systems used for agentic workloads?What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on technologies that are supporting agentic applications?Contact InfoBlogLinkedInParting QuestionFrom your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today?Closing AnnouncementsThank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.__init__ covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The AI Engineering Podcast is your guide to the fast-moving world of building AI systems.Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes.If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email [email protected] with your story.LinksAWS Aurora DSQLAWS LambdaThree Tier ArchitectureVector DatabaseGraph DatabaseRelational DatabaseVector EmbeddingRAG == Retrieval Augmented GenerationAI Engineering Podcast EpisodeGraphRAGAI Engineering Podcast EpisodeLLM Tool CallingMCP == Model Context ProtocolA2A == Agent 2 Agent ProtocolAWS Bedrock AgentCoreStrandsLangChainKiroThe intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SA
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This show goes behind the scenes for the tools, techniques, and difficulties associated with the discipline of data engineering. Databases, workflows, automation, and data manipulation are just some of the topics that you will find here.
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