Pulling The Thread with Elise Loehnen

I believe this is the most-listened-to episode ever on Pulling the Thread. It’s a conversation that I had with therapist Esther Perel in 2023 that still stands to this day—but that’s Esther for you. I think it also highlights how difficult it remains for many of us to get comfortable with conflict in our relationships, and to disagree and even fight, productively, with someone else. Whether you tend to avoid friction or go up in flames—or have a partner who does one or the other—I think you’ll find Esther’s framing compelling.

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Hi, friends. For those who are interested, I’m saying more about this in my solo episodes, but as I was preparing to recover from a non-life-threatening (and yet major) health surgery, I spent some time thinking about what would be meaningful to share with you all for the next few weeks or so. And I landed on a shortlist of conversations that I’ve had on Pulling the Thread over the years that resonated with listeners, that stuck with me, and that feel ever more relevant today, and worthy of a first-time listen now—and even a re-listen.

First up is my conversation with everybody’s favorite palliative medicine physician, BJ Miller. BJ has become a dear friend of mine and I find his approach to fear and the unknown to be incredibly helpful in so many aspects of life—from relationships to career to contemplating our larger purpose. This episode originally ran at the very end of 2021, which seems hard to believe for me! I hope you still love it, too.

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I spent the past month largely recovering from a (successful) double mastectomy—it was very intense, and I also had amazing care, from my team at UCLA, and from my family and friends. I am healing well and my prognosis couldn’t be better—I’m very lucky that intervention was early and I am not fighting for my life. I recorded this episode before my surgery—I did this for a number of reasons: to record the process of navigating options, to highlight where the big fear pockets were for me, and also to work through a second diagnosis, that’s scary-sounding but also in hand. If you’ve faced something like this—or are fearful of facing something like this—I hope my thought process is helpful. In last month’s episode (“Taking Your Foot Off the Gas”), I talked a bit about needing a sabbatical—and this is why. I appreciate all of you so much—thank you for continuing to listen to Pulling the Thread while I take some time to take care of myself. I'm very grateful for your support.

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Mark Wolynn is a pioneer in the field of inherited family trauma, the director of the Family Constellation Institute in San Francisco, and author of the recently updated classic It Didn't Start with You (there’s also now a companion workbook). I find his work endlessly fascinating. Here, he helps us see how inherited family trauma, attachment trauma, and unconscious loyalty is often unknowingly affecting our lives—and, importantly, what we can do about it to make positive change in our lives now, and for future generations.

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After the shocking end of her marriage, Belle Burden chose not to let herself get erased. Today, we talk about what she chose instead and the person she’s evolved into since writing her stunning memoir Strangers. Burden reminds me that while we can’t always understand why people do what they do, we can learn to live tethered to our own truth.

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