Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Is the U.S. winning the war with Iran? Even though President Trump claims success, it doesn’t quite feel like it — oil and gas prices are high, the Strait of Hormuz is effectively closed, and the Iranian regime is still in place. Mark Dubowitz, the chief executive of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a prominent Iran hawk, explains why “total victory” is within reach in spite of the cost. I pressed him on the gap between Trump’s desire for a quick deal and his desire to end the Islamic Republic.

00:00 - Intro

00:03:49 -  Is Iran biding its time until Trump leaves office?

00:07:07 -  Three phases to regime change

00:09:42 -  Iran's military capabilities and the Strait of Hormuz

00:14:54 -  How will the next American president treat Iran?

00:18:48 -  The battle for the Strait of Hormuz

00:23:27 -  Will Iran attack its neighbors?

00:28:43 -  Will Trump cut a deal?

00:38:19 -  Does Israel think Trump is its best chance?

00:43:04 -  Risk of U.S. alienation from Israel

00:48:01 -  The cost of inaction and the Iranian people

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The idea that white people — and white men in particular — face discrimination has become something of an obsession on the American right.

It’s a view that my guest this week shares. Jeremy Carl was nominated to a State Department post by the Trump administration, which sparked a lot of controversy. Carl is the author of “The Unprotected Class,” in which he makes the case that white Americans are in danger of becoming “second-class citizens.” 

I wanted to know what he thinks constitutes anti-white discrimination and whether focusing on it inevitably leads to white nationalism. After we taped this interview, Carl withdrew his nomination, acknowledging that he lacked enough support to be confirmed.

0:00 - Intro

01:59 - Jeremy Carl’s trajectory and State Department Nomination

05:24 - The Civil Rights Act and rise of anti-white Discrimination

12:20 - The impact of immigration on white Americans

24:53 - The "radicalization" of D.E.I.

37:37 - Carl’s provocative language and controversial tweets

51:06 - “White culture” vs. “civic nationalism”

01:01:00 - The fours pillars of “Americanness”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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Can the Democrats finally seize on President Trump’s increasing unpopularity and end their slump? It seems to me as though 2026 is providing them ample opportunity. But I wanted to know what they actually stand for. Have they learned anything about immigration? Are they ready for the new politics of artificial intelligence? To find out, I asked someone I consider a true man of the left, Chris Hayes, the host of “All In With Chris Hayes” on MS NOW.

00:00 Intro

02:09 - Democrats: The state of play in 2026

06:46 - How Israel fractures the Democrats

09:19 - Immigration reform beyond the “old consensus”

19:46 - Models for Democratic leadership: Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, Rafael Warnock, and Jon Ossoff

27:22 - 2028: Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsom and “the Hillary Clinton problem” 

30:41 - The politics of attention

36:19 - The challenges of achieving a Leftist society

45:37 - A Leftist case against A.I.

1:04:23 - Will A.I. define the 2028 election?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times With Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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I don’t think a war with Iran is what Trump — or his voters — had in mind when he campaigned on “America first.” My guest this week is Curt Mills, the executive director of The American Conservative, a magazine that champions foreign policy restraint. Mills thinks the war with Iran is a major betrayal of the voters who put Trump in the White House and has the potential to shatter Trump’s domestic coalition. 

01:27 - Tracking the Trump administration’s foreign policy shifts and dynamics

08:50 - The different strands of right-wing foreign policy

15:00 - Is the anti-war movement real?: Policy, polling and public opinion 

27:49 - Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Middle East’s influence on U.S. foreign policy

40:17 - Why can’t Trump say no to Israel?

46:20 - How does the fallout in Iran impact Trump’s potential 2028 successors and insurgents?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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We’re going back to the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. That is, if Artemis II can get off the ground. I sat down with Jared Isaacman, the billionaire leading NASA, to hear his perspective on everything from extraterrestrial life to the timeline for sending humans to Mars. 

This interview was recorded before NASA announced the delay of Artemis II’s launch.

01:59 - Where are we?

04:00 - From entrepreneur to astronaut

09:04 - The “lunar futuristic junkyard”

15:06 - NASA’s budget

22:43 - Beyond NASA: Blue Origin, SpaceX and private industry

27:26 - The orbital economy

37:21 - How do we get to Mars?

43:31 - “Do you think there's life out there?”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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