"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the co...
Beyond Preference Alignment: Teaching AIs to Play Roles & Respect Norms, with Tan Zhi Xuan
In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, Nathan explores groundbreaking perspectives on AI alignment with MIT PhD student Tan Zhi Xuan. We dive deep into Xuan's critique of preference-based AI alignment and their innovative proposal for role-based AI systems guided by social consensus. The conversation extends into their fascinating work on how AI agents can learn social norms through Bayesian rule induction. Join us for an intellectually stimulating discussion that bridges philosophical theory with practical implementation in AI development.
Check out:
"Beyond Preferences in AI Alignment" paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2408.16984
"Learning and Sustaining Shared Normative Systems via Bayesian Rule Induction in Markov Games" paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.13399
Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
SPONSORS:
Notion: Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/cognitiverevolution
Weights & Biases RAG++: Advanced training for building production-ready RAG applications. Learn from experts to overcome LLM challenges, evaluate systematically, and integrate advanced features. Includes free Cohere credits. Visit https://wandb.me/cr to start the RAG++ course today.
Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers13. OCI powers industry leaders with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before December 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:00) Teaser
(00:01:09) About the Episode
(00:04:25) Guest Intro
(00:06:25) Xuan's Background
(00:12:03) AI Near-Term Outlook
(00:17:32) Sponsors: Notion | Weights & Biases RAG++
(00:20:18) Alignment Approaches
(00:26:11) Critiques of RLHF
(00:34:40) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI)
(00:35:50) Beyond Preferences
(00:40:27) Roles and AI Systems
(00:45:19) What AI Owes Us
(00:51:52) Drexler's AI Services
(01:01:08) Constitutional AI
(01:09:43) Technical Approach
(01:22:01) Norms and Deviations
(01:32:31) Norm Decay
(01:38:06) Self-Other Overlap
(01:44:05) Closing Thoughts
(01:54:23) Outro
SOCIAL LINKS:
Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai
Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast
Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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1:57:12
Is an AI Arms Race Inevitable? with Robert Wright of Nonzero Newsletter & Podcast
In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, Nathan explores the complex intersection of AI development and international relations with Robert Wright, publisher of the Nonzero Newsletter. They examine the growing militarization of AI, US-China relations, and the concerning trajectory of what Wright calls "the chip war." Drawing from Nathan's recent experience at The Curve conference and an AI wargame simulation, they discuss the risks of an AI arms race and search for alternative paths to avoid catastrophic conflict between global powers. Join us for this crucial conversation about the future of AI governance and international cooperation.
Subscribe to The NonZero Newsletter at https://nonzero.substack.com
Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg
SPONSORS:
Notion: Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/cognitiverevolution
80,000 Hours: 80,000 Hours offers free one-on-one career advising for Cognitive Revolution listeners aiming to tackle global challenges, especially in AI. They connect high-potential individuals with experts, opportunities, and personalized career plans to maximize positive impact. Apply for a free call at https://80000hours.org/cognitiverevolution to accelerate your career and contribute to solving pressing AI-related issues.
SelectQuote: Finding the right life insurance shouldn't be another task you put off. SelectQuote compares top-rated policies to get you the best coverage at the right price. Even in our AI-driven world, protecting your family's future remains essential. Get your personalized quote at https://selectquote.com/cognitive
Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers13. OCI powers industry leaders with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before December 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:00) Teaser
(00:00:59) Sponsors: Incogni
(00:02:20) About the Episode
(00:05:56) Introducing AI2
(00:09:56) Tulu: Deep Dive (Part 1)
(00:17:43) Sponsors: Notion | Shopify
(00:20:38) Open vs. Closed Recipes
(00:29:48) Compute & Value (Part 1)
(00:34:22) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | 80,000 Hours
(00:37:02) Compute & Value (Part 2)
(00:42:41) Model Weight Evolution
(00:53:16) DPO vs. PPO
(01:06:36) Project Trajectory
(01:20:39) Synthetic Data & LLM Judge
(01:27:39) Verifiable RL
(01:38:17) Advice for Practitioners
(01:44:01) Open Source vs. Closed
(01:49:18) Outro
SOCIAL LINKS:
Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai
Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast
Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast
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2:04:58
Designing the Future: Inside Canva's AI Strategy with John Milinovich, GenAI Product Lead at Canva
Nathan explores the world of AI-powered design with John Milinovich, Head of Generative AI Product at Canva. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we dive into Canva's innovative approach to AI integration, from task automation to human augmentation. Join us for an insightful discussion about fine-tuning foundation models, AI's impact on architecture, and practical tips for AI product development at scale.
Check out Canva: https://www.canva.com
Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
SPONSORS:
SelectQuote: Finding the right life insurance shouldn't be another task you put off. SelectQuote compares top-rated policies to get you the best coverage at the right price. Even in our AI-driven world, protecting your family's future remains essential. Get your personalized quote at https://selectquote.com/cognitive
Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code REVOLUTION at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/revolution
Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system and exclusive AI apps like Quikly. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive
Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers13. OCI powers industry leaders with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before December 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive
Brave: The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:00) Teaser
(00:01:13) Sponsors: SelectQuote
(00:02:26) About the Episode
(00:04:33) Introduction - Creativity vs Design
(00:08:39) AI-Assisted Experiences
(00:10:25) Automation & Augmentation
(00:15:27) Pixels to Objects to Concepts
(00:17:58) Sponsors: Incogni | Shopify
(00:20:40) Concept-Level Interfaces
(00:23:35) The Future of Design
(00:29:39) Human Element in Design
(00:32:49) AI Talking to AI
(00:35:52) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | Brave
(00:38:04) Purpose-Specific AI Experiences
(00:45:29) GPT-4 Image Editing
(00:51:17) Graduated Approach to Launch
(00:55:09) Fine-Tuning GPT-4
(00:59:10) Cost & Latency
(01:01:29) Hiring AI Engineers
(01:05:02) Engineering Best Practices
(01:09:00) Inspiration in the AI Space
(01:18:28) The Gen AI Application Layer
(01:24:26) Outro
SOCIAL LINKS:
Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai
Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast
Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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1:26:05
Everything You Wanted to Know About LLM Post-Training, with Nathan Lambert of Allen Institute for AI
In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we dive deep into frontier post-training techniques for large language models with Nathan Lambert from the Allen Institute for AI. Nathan discusses the groundbreaking Tulu 3 release, which matches Meta's post-training performance using the LlAMA base model. We explore supervised fine-tuning, preference-based reinforcement learning, and the innovative reinforcement learning from verifiable reward technique. Nathan provides unprecedented insights into the practical aspects of model development, compute requirements, and data generation strategies. This technically rich conversation illuminates previously opaque aspects of LLM development, achieved by a small team of 10-15 people. Join us for one of our most detailed and valuable discussions on state-of-the-art AI model development.
Check out Nathan's Lambert newsletter:
https://www.natolambert.com
https://www.interconnects.ai
Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
SPONSORS:
Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code REVOLUTION at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/revolution
Notion: Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/cognitiverevolution
Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system and exclusive AI apps like Quikly. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive
Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers13. OCI powers industry leaders with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before December 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive
80,000 Hours: 80,000 Hours offers free one-on-one career advising for Cognitive Revolution listeners aiming to tackle global challenges, especially in AI. They connect high-potential individuals with experts, opportunities, and personalized career plans to maximize positive impact. Apply for a free call at https://80000hours.org/cognitiverevolution to accelerate your career and contribute to solving pressing AI-related issues.
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:00) Teaser
(00:00:59) Sponsors: Incogni
(00:02:20) About the Episode
(00:05:56) Introducing AI2
(00:09:56) Tulu: Deep Dive (Part 1)
(00:17:43) Sponsors: Shopify | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI)
(00:20:38) Open vs. Closed Recipes
(00:29:48) Compute & Value (Part 1)
(00:34:22) Sponsors: 80,000 Hours | Notion
(00:37:02) Compute & Value (Part 2)
(00:42:41) Model Weight Evolution
(00:53:16) DPO vs. PPO
(01:06:36) Project Trajectory
(01:20:39) Synthetic Data & LLM Judge
(01:27:39) Verifiable RL
(01:38:17) Advice for Practitioners
(01:44:01) Open Source vs. Closed
(01:49:18) Outro
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1:50:08
Zvi’s POV: Ilya’s SSI, OpenAI’s o1, Claude Computer Use, Trump’s election, and more
In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, Nathan welcomes back Zvi Mowshowitz for an in-depth discussion on the latest developments in AI over the past six months. They explore Ilya's new superintelligence-focused startup, analyze OpenAI's O1 model, and debate the impact of Claude's computer use capabilities. The conversation covers emerging partnerships in big tech, regulatory changes, and the recent OpenAI profit-sharing drama. Zvi offers unique insights on AI safety, politics, and strategic analysis that you won't find elsewhere. Join us for this thought-provoking episode that challenges our understanding of the rapidly evolving AI landscape.
Check out "Don't Worry About the Vase" Blog: https://thezvi.substack.com
Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
SPONSORS:
Shopify: Shopify is the world's leading e-commerce platform, offering a market-leading checkout system and exclusive AI apps like Quikly. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Get a $1 per month trial at https://shopify.com/cognitive
Notion: Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at https://notion.com/cognitiverevolution
Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers13. OCI powers industry leaders with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before December 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive
SelectQuote: Finding the right life insurance shouldn't be another task you put off. SelectQuote compares top-rated policies to get you the best coverage at the right price. Even in our AI-driven world, protecting your family's future remains essential. Get your personalized quote at https://selectquote.com/cognitive
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Unpack Pricing - Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1765716600
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/38DK3W1Fq1xxQalhDSueFg
CHAPTERS:
(00:00:00) Teaser
(00:01:03) About the Episode
(00:02:57) Catching Up
(00:04:00) Ilya's New Company
(00:06:10) GPT-4 and Scaling
(00:11:49) User Report: GPT-4 (Part 1)
(00:18:11) Sponsors: Shopify | Notion
(00:21:06) User Report: GPT-4 (Part 2)
(00:24:25) Magic: The Gathering (Part 1)
(00:32:34) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | SelectQuote
(00:34:58) Magic: The Gathering (Part 2)
(00:35:59) Humanity's Last Exam
(00:41:29) Computer Use
(00:47:42) Industry Landscape
(00:55:42) Why is Gemini Third?
(01:04:32) Voice Mode
(01:09:41) Alliances and Coupling
(01:16:31) Regulation
(01:24:58) Machines of Loving Grace
(01:33:23) Taiwan and Chips
(01:41:13) SB 1047 Veto
(02:00:07) Arc AGI Prize
(02:02:23) Deepfakes and UBI
(02:09:06) Trump and AI
(02:26:31) AI Manhattan Project
(02:32:05) Virtue Ethics
(02:38:40) Closing Thoughts
(02:40:37) Outro
SOCIAL LINKS:
Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai
Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast
Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
About "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years.
The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
Listen to "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis, Lex Fridman Podcast and many other podcasts from around the world with the radio.net app