Future Around & Find Out

Everyone's feeling jumpy about AI right now—and for good reason.
The hype has been massive. The investment has been astronomical. But where's the actual return?
In this episode, Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View and advisor to tech leaders and governments, breaks down why the next 18 months are make-or-break for AI. Companies need to prove there's real ROI, not just prototypes launched and tokens spent.
We cover:
What hard evidence would actually prove AI is working (hint: it's not usage metrics)
Who can build a real moat with AI—and why the winners will likely come from unexpected places, as they have in previous tech transformations
The physical constraints nobody wants to talk about: chips, data centers, power grids, and whether America's infrastructure is up to the task
Why OpenAI's "ubiquity strategy" might be spreading too thin (and what Anthropic is doing differently)
The "pragmatic addicts" problem: we're dependent on AI even though we don't trust it
How Azeem and his team use AI to be more productive, how they automate whatever they can, and why individual contributors are acting more like managers (of AI)
Note: This interview was recorded months before the "SaaSpacolypse" (big market drop) of Feb 2026; the analysis is as relevant as ever. 

Chapters

(01:51) - Why the next 18 months are the crucible for AI

(04:09) - What hard evidence would actually prove AI ROI (not token counts!)

(06:55) - Why it's so hard to measure AI's real impact

(09:55) - Who can build a moat with AI? Winners will be in "odd places"

(12:56) - Structural data advantages: why Waymo's edge is hard to replicate

(14:34) - Coding agents and whether developers will become disillusioned with them

(18:21) - Physical constraints: chips, data centers, power, and America's grid problem

(21:25) - How the Gulf countries became an unexpected AI hub

(28:02) - "Pragmatic addicts": why 75% of Americans distrust AI but use it anyway

(31:45) - The narrative of AI can be very unappealing: heaven on Earth or dystopia

(34:36) - How Azeem's team uses AI: augmentation vs. automation

(40:06) - What should we be talking about besides AI?

(43:46) - Sounds like science fiction: What Azeem can't believe is real and here today

Links & Resources:
Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.co/
Azeem's Boom or Bubble dashboard: https://boomorbubble.ai/
Azeem's New York Times piece on America's electric grid challenge: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/28/opinion/ai-electricity-power-plants.html
More on the “MIT Study” claiming 95% of AI projects fail that Azeem and I both found to be really poorly done, but that is nonetheless is quoted by everyone: Here’s Azeem tearing the study apart with data: https://www.exponentialview.co/p/how-95-escaped-into-the-world
And here's me riffing with Kwaku Aning on it. You know why Azeem liked my take? Because I actually read the thing, unlike ~95% of the writers out there who just quoted that 95% number: https://www.futurearound.com/p/did-anyone-actually-read-that-mit-ai-study-that-made-the-markets-swoon-i-did
Support Future Around & Find Out
Get the newsletter: https://www.futurearound.com
Become a paid subscriber and help future proof this thing!: https://www.futurearound.com
Sponsor the show? 
Are you looking to reach an audience of senior technologists and decision-makers? Email me: [email protected]

Welcome to the first FAFO Friday!
This week Dan and Kwaku dig into:
- The uncanny valley that is AI agents and Moltbook—the "Reddit" that agents built for themselves to complain about humans, create a religion, and behave in ways that freak humans out
- Anthropic takes aim at OpenAI with a Super Bowl ad that's spicy (for cubs and cougars alike)
- We read Claude's "Constitution" and ask: Should AI do what you ask it to do—or what it thinks you _really_ want long-term?
- Why Dan switched from OpenAI to Claude (and what he learned about tone, capability, and custom projects)
- OpenAI scrambles; the market stumbles; Jensen Huang acts like Sam Altman is "just someone I used to know"
- How AEO (AI Engine Optimization) becomes critical in an AI-agent world—and what that means for brand, marketing, and search
- Why social media is already past (dark social won)
- Elon's pivot to humanoid robots, data centers in space, and other cool things we definitely need
- Are we setting higher ethical standards for machines than for tech leaders?
Plus: Friendster, TiVo, Pee-wee's Playhouse, and other asides that we hope you get, but maybe you won't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
---
Support Future Around & Find Out
- Subscribe to the newsletter and support: https://www.futurearound.com
- Support the media — support the future — you hope to see. Please consider a paid subscription to Future Around & Find Out. You’ll also get access to exclusive events and the ability to ask questions of upcoming guests. Learn more: https://www.futurearound.com/upgrade

Baratunde Thurston wants us to live well with machines — not for us live under them, nor to be their almighty overlords.
Baratunde is a technologist, a comedian, and an Emmy-nominated storyteller who explores interdependence. He gets spicy in this episode. The host of Life With Machines explores how he uses AI — without succumbing to its literal mediocrity — and why he feels he must use AI because otherwise he’s ceding the future to big tech. He also digs into the compromises made in service of building AGI, why strongmen are actually weak, and why CEOs need to stop bending the knee and learn how collective power and strength actually work.
But he doesn't just critique—he offers builders a concrete path forward for how we can build a better future , because: 
"If we build these systems in a good way, there'll be more for everybody, more freedom for everybody and more money for everybody. I do believe that that is possible, but if we do this the wrong way, most of us are gonna suffer and a handful will enjoy their riches in a very secure compound."This episode is a banger. You will be inspired to take action!

Chapters:

(02:00) - “I don't want to live under machines… I also don't want to be like master of the machine”

(06:25) - Creating good goals for AI systems and products

(09:00) - “Nothing about us without us” – principles of community-based action

(11:10) - How Baratunde stays creative and avoids mediocrity when using AI

(14:10) - Building BLAIR, Baratunde’s AI “co-host” and “producer” on Life With Machines

(16:50) - “You know nothing, John Snow.” Generative AI systems are not knowledge repositories!

(20:00) - Practice what you preach: on Mustafa Suleyman (Microsoft AI CEO) and his warning against building “Seemingly Conscious AI”

(24:26) - The AI funding shell game

(25:26) - Racing to AGI and the compromises (trust & safety, copyright, etc…) along the way

(28:56) - How Baratunde reconciles his unease with his own heavy use of AI

(32:10) - “Comedy will not save us; we will save us.” On the role of comedy vs. authority / authoritarians

(36:26) - Bending the knee: why Baratunde says tech CEOs need to learn how collective power works

(38:26) - What builders — what we! — can do (today!) to exercise our power about how these systems will be built

(40:26) - “If we build these systems in a good way, there’ll be more for everybody…”

Where to find Baratunde Thurston:
Life with Machines: https://www.lifewithmachines.media/
Support Future Around & Find Out
Subscribe to the newsletter and support: https://www.futurearound.com
Support the media — support the future — you hope to see. Please consider a paid subscription to Future Around & Find Out. You’ll also get access to exclusive events and the ability to ask questions of upcoming guests. Learn more: https://www.futurearound.com/upgrade 
Sponsor the show?
Interested in reaching an audience of senior technologists and decision-makers and aligning with future-forward content? Let's talk! Please email show host Dan Blumberg: [email protected]
---
Music by Jonathan Zalben

You know what would be awesome? If we could build the future we want — before we muck it up.
Future Around & Find Out helps builders think clearly about AI and emerging technologies, grapple with the implications, and decide what to build next.
Independent technologist and former NPR journalist Dan Blumberg speaks with founders, makers, and you to celebrate breakthroughs, call BS on the hype, explore how things might go sideways — and how we can steer the future in the right direction.
The Webby Awards have honored the show (formerly known as CRAFTED.) as a top tech podcast three years in a row!
On Tuesdays, we feature interviews with the builders changing how we work, live, and play.
On FAFO Fridays, futurist Kwaku Aning joins Dan for a playful recap of the week in tech, including the amazing, the scary, and the strange.
You’ll also hear about innovations that too often get overshadowed by AI, including in deep tech, biotech, fintech, quantum computing, robotics, blockchain, and more.
Across it all, you’ll hear sharp takes on what comes next and what builders need to know now.
So let’s Future Around & Find Out together!
FutureAround.com

(Music by Jonathan Zalben)

You know what would be awesome? If we could build the future we want — before we f* it up. 
Future Around & Find Out helps builders think clearly about AI and emerging technologies, grapple with the implications, and decide what to build next. 
Independent technologist and former NPR journalist Dan Blumberg speaks with founders, makers, and you to celebrate breakthroughs, call BS on the hype, explore how things might go sideways — and how we can steer the future in the right direction. 
The Webby Awards have honored the show (formerly known as CRAFTED.) as a top tech podcast three years in a row!   
On Tuesdays, we feature interviews with the builders changing how we work, live, and play. We dig into how they apply new technologies in practice, pressure-test their ideas, and grapple with second-order effects.   
On FAFO Fridays, futurist Kwaku Aning joins Dan for a sharp, playful recap of the week in tech, including the amazing, the scary, and the strange. And we’ll explore innovations that often get overshadowed by AI, including in deep tech, biotech, fintech, quantum computing, robotics, blockchain, and more. 
Across it all, you’ll hear sharp takes on what comes next and what builders need to know now.   
So let’s Future Around & Find Out together!   
Learn more and sign for the newsletter: FutureAround.com