In Proximity

SINNERS lead actor Michael B. Jordan and writer/director/producer Ryan Coogler break down the Academy Award®-nominated film and their 10+ year collaboration in this exclusive conversation with IN PROXIMITY host Paola Mardo.
Michael dives deep into his acting process for playing dual roles as Smoke and Stack, sharing how he uses character journals, key phrases from archival recordings, and physical details to build his characters. Ryan reveals his screenwriting approach and his never-before-heard timeline mapping the Smokestack Twins’ backstory, including romances with Mary (Hailee Steinfeld) and Annie (Wunmi Mosaku), and their time in Chicago with Al Capone. Ryan also kicks off this very special episode by making lattes, sharing how his love for coffee connects to filmmaking and acts of service for the cast and crew. It's gonna be a real ring-a-ding-ding… so grab a cup of coffee (or Irish beer or Italian wine) and enjoy!
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(00:00) Smokestack Twins Lore
(00:30) Host Paola Mardo intro
(04:30) The boss today and Michael’s espresso life
(06:00) Ryan makes us coffee: Cannes, George Clooney, set coffee culture, abstract latte art
(09:30) Acts of service
(12:20) From FRUITVALE STATION to SINNERS
(14:35) 1A and 1B on the call sheet, why number 1 on the call sheet means leadership
(19:00) Questions Michael asked Ryan after reading the SINNERS script, the surreal juke joint montage, Stack and Mary
(23:16) Smokestack Twins Lore
(27:12) Stack does Smoke’s hair
(28:38) Smoke’s tremors
(30:55) Journals as part of Michael’s acting process
(32:55) When Smoke and Stack broke up, Ryan’s timeline spreadsheet, Mary, Annie, LORE (!), Chicago, Al Capone
(36:30) How much older Smoke feels from Stack
(38:00) Are you Smoke or Stack? Delta Slim, Mary, mystery, Ryan’s script to Michael’s acting performance
(40:00) “When the actor becomes the expert on the character… the twins are his now… then twins belong to the movie”
(40:25) Stack being a liar, Smoke telling the truth
(42:00) Mike’s improvised moments, Smoke versus Hogwood
(45:23) Preparing for the roles of Smoke and Stack, dialect coach, physicality, different sized shoes, chakra work, childhood trauma
(49:30) Key phrases
(50:35) “Made in Mississippi" documentary archival recordings (directors: William Ferris, Judy Peiser)
(51:51) Drawing from history and real people to bring characters and script to life, Michael’s and Ryan’s family history, sharecroppers, ancestry, Uncle James
(53:22) Scene Breakdown: Smoke teaching a young girl to negotiate, “numbers in conversation”
(56:11) Smoke as “a fun character to write but it was a really fun character to see Mike play”
(58:05) “These are very BAD men”
(58:59) Mike is “like a Tom Hanks!”
(1:00:30) “He never knifed nobody… that I know of!”
(1:04:00) Prox Recs
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IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editor: Patrick Epino
Production Sound Mixer: Mark Patino
Camera Operator: Josh Ortiz
Associate Producer: Celine Mendiola
Production Coordinator: Joy Woo
Production Assistant: Devin Saddler
Production Intern: Ben Caloza
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Barista: George Stevenson

Essential filmmaking advice from industry pros: writer/director Justin Tipping breaks down the Tagalog needle drop in the Jordan Peele-produced sports horror film HIM and how Busta Rhymes' "Gimmie Some More" and Alfred Hitchcock's PSYCHO inspired the score (featuring "AIGHT?" by Carl Angelo and music by composer Bobby Krlic); EYES OF WAKANDA creator/director Todd Harris explains why directors should touch multiple departments; and SUPERGIRL actor, writer, and producer Azie Tesfai reveals how a bad audition made her better.
Learn more and read the transcript at ProximityMedia.com
Shop our Prox Recs at Bookshop.org
Watch/Listen to IN PROXIMITY on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify
Follow Proximity Media on Instagram, TikTok, ProximityMedia.com
IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editors: Patrick Epino, Brittani Brown, Ken Nana, A.J. Calomay, Andrea Walter
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Production Assistants: Isabella Miller, Devin Saddler
Sound Production Assistant: Isabella Miller
Post-Production Coordinator: Celine Mendiola
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Production Intern: Jun Sawada, Ben Caloza

Mike Carson is a multidisciplinary creative director and designer. Last year, he co-creative directed and production designed Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl LIX Halftime Show, which drew over 133 million live viewers, making it the most-watched halftime performance ever and one of 2025’s biggest cultural moments.
On this episode, Mike talks to IN PROXIMITY host Paola Mardo about his journey from filming music videos at 19 with Big Sean (including the iconic millennial bop “Dance (A$$)” Remix featuring Nicki Minaj) and working alongside mentor Virgil Abloh, to becoming one of the most sought-after creative directors today. He also shares his creative process behind the Super Bowl Halftime Show, filming a documentary on Kanye West and Jay-Z on their 2011 Watch the Throne tour, his approach to production design for live experiences, why his laptop is essential to every project, and the art and business of the music video.
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(00:00) The 12-minute music video
(02:00) Director first, designer second
(03:00) Creative directing and production designing Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl Halftime Show
(08:30) The process of creative directing
(10:13) How the LA fires impacted rehearsal; shout out choreographer Charm La'Donna
(13:05) How being multidisciplinary helps his work
(13:37) Working with Virgil Abloh
(17:30) What he learned from Virgil
(18:30) Filming Kanye West and Jay-Z on the Watch the Throne
(19:54) Voice Memo from the “muse” Big Sean
(25:19) Directing music videos
(27:12) First big budget video, Big Sean’s “Dance (A$$)” Remix ft. Nicki Minaj
(29:40) Bringing back the delusion, childlike curiosity – just create!
(31:15) Mike’s design process
(36:28) Prox Recs
SHOP OUR PROX BOOKS RECS ON BOOKSHOP.ORG
LEARN MORE AND READ THE TRANSCRIPT AT PROXIMITYMEDIA.COM
WATCH/LISTEN TO IN PROXIMITY
YOUTUBE
APPLE PODCASTS
SPOTIFY
FOLLOW PROXIMITY MEDIA
INSTAGRAM
TIKTOK
IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editors: Patrick Epino, Brittani Brown, Ken Nana, Ben Caloza
Sound Recordist: Isabella Miller
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Production Assistant: Isabella Miller
Post-Production Coordinator: Celine Mendiola
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Production Intern: Ben Caloza

Kick off the new year with advice from industry pros: manager James Swoope on why you need “something to manage” before getting representation, actor/writer/producer Azie Tesfai on asking for what you want and crowning yourself, and designer Jeff Staple on balancing art with business. Part of our special "Prox Gems" holiday mini episodes.
Learn more and read the transcript at ProximityMedia.com
Shop our Prox Recs at Bookshop.org
Watch/Listen to IN PROXIMITY on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify
Follow Proximity Media on Instagram, TikTok, ProximityMedia.com
IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editors: Patrick Epino, Brittani Brown, Ken Nana, A.J. Calomay, Andrea Walter
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Production Assistants: Isabella Miller, Devin Saddler
Sound Production Assistant: Isabella Miller
Post-Production Coordinator: Celine Mendiola
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Production Intern: Jun Sawada, Ben Caloza

Highlights from this season’s SINNERS episodes including: cultural consultant Dolly Li on Remmick’s infamous “licking” line, script supervisor Steve Gehrke on tracking continuity with Michael B. Jordan’s Smokestack Twins, and storyboard artist and EYES OF WAKANDA creator/director Todd Harris on storyboarding the surreal juke joint musical montage scene. Part of our special "Prox Gems" holiday mini episodes.
Learn more and read the transcript at ProximityMedia.com
Shop our Prox Recs at Bookshop.org
Watch/Listen to IN PROXIMITY on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify
Follow Proximity Media on Instagram, TikTok, ProximityMedia.com
IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editors: Patrick Epino, Brittani Brown, Ken Nana, A.J. Calomay, Ben Caloza
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Production Assistants: Isabella Miller, Devin Saddler
Sound Production Assistant: Isabella Miller
Post-Production Coordinator: Celine Mendiola
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Production Intern: Jun Sawada, Ben Caloza