Topline

Ryan Burke, VP of Worldwide Sales at Crogl, joins Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman on the new economics of enterprise cyber risk. Topics include Anthropic's Mythos model, AI for the security operations center, why vibe-coded apps are far more likely to have security issues, why Claude Design tanked Figma's stock, and what the Elon Musk versus OpenAI lawsuit signals for AI governance.
Key takeaways:
AI has crashed the cost of running sophisticated attacks, putting nation-state-grade tooling in the hands of low-skill operators. As Ryan Burke, VP of Worldwide Sales at Crogl, put it on Anthropic's Mythos model: "Mythos has lowered the cost to like the dollar menu equivalent of...running an attack...so more people can do it." Enterprises are staring down a multi-year patching backlog that runs from now until the end of time.
Non-technical teams in finance, ops, and HR are shipping internal tools using Replit and Claude, and almost none of them are securing what they build. Ryan Burke flagged the research: "vibe-coded software is almost 3 times as likely to have security issues." When the employee who built the agent quits, the agent stays behind with no owner, no documentation, and quiet access to systems it never should have had in the first place.
For founders eyeing an exit, security has joined revenue, IP, and hitting your numbers as a non-negotiable diligence pillar. As Ryan Burke explained: "lack of security can kill an acquisition...a fourth pillar now is you're secure." Acquirers like JPMorgan Chase will not buy a fintech startup that turns into a vector for attackers to walk straight into their environment.
The market case for NRR-fortress legacy SaaS may be weaker than the last decade made it look. As Asad Zaman, CEO of Sales Talent Agency, argued: "there was a generation of software companies that had signs that they had really good customer relationships...but their customers felt more like prisoners." If AI makes switching cheap and a new generation of software actually delights users, the moats around system-of-record incumbents start to compress fast.
Connect with the hosts and guest: 
Host: Sam Jacobs, CEO at Pavilion - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ 
Host: AJ Bruno, CEO at QuotaPath - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ 
Host: Asad Zaman, CEO at Sales Talent Agency - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ 

Guest: Ryan Burke, VP Worldwide Sales at Crogl - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-burke-bos/
Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: 
Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ 
Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast 
Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack
Chapters: 
00:00 Introducing Ryan Burke
03:14 Anthropic Mythos and Cyber Risk
04:20 How Attackers Use AI at Scale 
07:00 Dollar Menu Attacks Explained 
10:41 AI for the Security Ops Center 
14:53 Why Claude Tanks Figma's Stock 
18:30 Sam's Advice on Falling Stocks 
20:50 Are Legacy SaaS Companies Back? 
24:04 The Vibe-Coding Risk Surface 
27:56 Quiz Pro: Cybersecurity Edition 
33:46 Replit Apps Inside Enterprises 
40:18 Security as the M&A Fourth Pillar 
44:17 Personal Data and Digital Legacy 
47:24 Bulls vs Bears: Elon vs OpenAI 
52:03 Will ServiceNow Hit $32B?

Stage 2 Capital General Partner Liz Christo joins the show to discuss the disconnect between venture expectations and reality in the software market. The conversation covers the hidden costs of the new build versus buy debate, the structural changes happening within modern sales organizations, and whether traditional B2B SaaS go-to-market strategies and moats still matter when AI coding tools make software replication cheaper than ever.
Key Takeaways:
-The shift toward building internal AI tools instead of buying SaaS products overlooks long-term technical debt, as Liz Christo points out that "there's like a huge amount of cost buried behind the scenes that we're not really talking about today because it's still like sexy and fun."
-Founders are artificially inflating their Total Addressable Market to meet new venture capital baseline expectations, with Liz Christo noting that "pitch decks read like really ridiculous right now where everybody wants to tell the story of like a $10 billion outcome because that's the new milestone that got set."
-Revenue Operations is becoming the most direct path to the Chief Revenue Officer seat in AI-first organizations, which Sam Jacobs explains is "because as we use fewer humans and more agents, the sort of the half technical, the semi-technical capabilities of most RevOps people will translate into orchestrating armies of agents."
-Delegating analysis and writing to AI risks destroying strategic judgment across go-to-market teams, a trend Liz Christo summarizes by stating, "I think we are producing an incredible amount of content that's not getting consumed... I just think we're like losing the ability to think and we're not teaching junior employees how to do it."
Connect with the Hosts & Guests:
Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ 
Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ 
Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ 
Guest: Liz Christo - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizchristo/
 
Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:
Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/ Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack
 
Chapters: 
00:00 Intro and Cold Open
02:41 The New Build vs Buy Debate
06:10 Engineers in Every Department
10:48 Pitch Decks and 10B Dollar TAMs
17:53 Venture Capital Funding Quiz
23:43 AI Memos and Critical Thinking
42:41 Software Moats and Switching Costs
47:46 Bulls vs Bears Segment
48:23 RevOps as a Path to CRO
51:25 The Future of SDR Managers
55:14 Is Clay Actually Undervalued
59:12 Odds of Hitting 50M ARR

Peter Walker brings Carta's proprietary private market data from 60,000 startups and 85% of US unicorns to expose the brutal realities of today's tech landscape. While Q1 saw record capital raised, the money is highly concentrated among foundation models. We review the harsh truth behind the 530,000 open tech jobs in the US and the widening talent divide separating top 10% performers from the rest of the market. The conversation covers why venture capital is squeezing operators, how private equity is no longer a guaranteed exit strategy, and the urgent need to optimize your GTM strategy for AI-native workflows. We also debate the death of long-term product roadmaps, the impact of AI on enterprise pipeline generation, and evaluate whether middle management will survive the next 24 months.
Key Takeaways
The traditional safety net for slow-growth SaaS companies has disappeared, with Peter Walker noting that "A lot of companies held out this PE route as like, this is my escape hatch if I don't grow that fast. And now they're finding it's like, actually, the PEs don't care about you either."

Securing venture capital has never been harder for founders outside of the AI bubble, as Peter Walker states "it's definitely not the easiest time to raise money unless you are already in the legible cohort. And if you're in the legible cohort, you know who you are."

Rapid execution is replacing traditional product planning, with Peter Walker emphasizing that "the companies that are moving fast… don't know what they're doing in three weeks... we have no idea what's going to happen in October."

Artificial intelligence is fundamentally threatening traditional communication hierarchies, and Sam Jacobs is bearish on the future of people managers because "if the purpose of management is to facilitate decision making at certain executive levels, that is something that AI can do."

Connect with the Hosts & Guests 
Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ 
Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ 
Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ 
Guest: Peter Walker - https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/
 
Topline is more than a YouTube Channel!
Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://toplinemedia.substack.com/
Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast 
Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack
Chapters: 
00:00 The AI Funding Divide 
02:36 Is It Harder to Raise Capital 
04:37 VCs Only Care About Growth 
06:44 The Death of the PE Exit 
10:48 Transitioning to AI Native 
14:50 Why Product Roadmaps Are (Kinda) Dead 
19:19 Stop Defaulting to VC 
29:11 Historic Tech Funding Rounds 
31:59 Over 530K Open Tech Jobs 
36:55 Hiring Market Concentration 
46:29 The Growing Tech Talent Divide 
49:11 VC Fund Performance Realities 
54:28 Future of Foundation Models 
58:29 The End of Middle Management

In this episode, Jordan Crawford outlines how revenue leaders can build an autonomous pipeline generation engine and transition away from static playbooks. The discussion covers practical methods for extracting competitor usage data, identifying segments of users who are far more likely to buy, and generally how top GTM teams are using GTM Engineering to dramatically improve their results. The hosts also evaluate how AI tools alter revenue operations, shift the traditional B2B SaaS go-to-market strategy, and force a total redesign of traditional AE compensation models.
Key Takeaways:
Top-down executive mandates fail because leadership lacks hands-on experience with the required technical systems. Jordan Crawford notes the absurdity of this disconnect, stating, "You read these letters from all these CEOs and they're like, 'We need to be an AI first organization and I can't tell you what that means or how to implement it, but goddamn, you need to be able to do it.'"
The core function of revenue operations must shift from administrative reporting tasks to running active market tests. Sam Jacobs explains this organizational friction, observing many Rev Ops employees think their job is still to deliver reports to the C-Suite and ensure data accuracy, when today's reality is that "actually your job now is to generate demand and like I need 50 campaigns tested by tomorrow."
Identifying high-value target accounts requires prioritizing product telemetry and user actions over static CRM fields. Jordan highlights the power of this approach, explaining that "AI can basically analyze customers' words, actions, and what's in the CRM and say... these accounts are worth 10 times more than these accounts."
Connect with the Hosts & Guests:
Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ 
Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ 
Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ 
Guest: Jordan Crawford - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/
Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:
Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter 
Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast J
Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack
Chapters:
00:00 Podcast Episode Introduction 
02:52 Reversing GTM Strategy 
06:44 RevOps and AI Thought Partners 
13:58 Executing Fast Sales Campaigns 
18:25 AI For Comp Plan Benchmarks 
21:04 Defining Pain Qualified Segments 
26:42 Shifting RevOps Priorities 
38:41 Unbundling B2B SaaS Jobs 
39:21 The Topline Trivia Game 
45:11 Top Of Funnel AI Tactics 
46:43 Middle Of Funnel Telemetry 
47:56 Bottom Of Funnel Contract Review 
49:10 Bull/Bear Predictions

Cassie Young, Partner at Primary Venture Partners, joins the show to break down their contrarian $625 million seed fund and the reality of the coming gross retention apocalypse for tech companies. The conversation outlines why classical venture logic is breaking and how AI-native CRMs are plotting to steal enterprise market share from legacy giants like Salesforce. The group also details why the $6 trillion white-collar labor pool is the real target for emerging AI workflows rather than traditional software budgets. Expect a direct discussion on the myth of the zero CAC CEO, the evolving definition of the jaw-dropping customer experience, and the specific signals Primary looks for when writing checks to early-stage go-to-market founders building the next wave of B2B SaaS products.
Key Takeaways
-Primary Ventures just raised a massive $625 million seed fund by challenging traditional venture capital models, as Cassie explains, "The conventional wisdom at seed is to stay small. We fundamentally disagree with that." But don't worry: Cassie explains why they believe their approach is the right one.
-Cassie warns that a retention reckoning is inevitable for AI startups noting, "I still very much live in fear of this... it might not be next month, it might not be next year, but it's ultimately going to come." Meanwhile, the hosts wonder: is it truly inevitable? Or just highly likely?
-Cassie points out that a "Zero CAC CEO who's not supplemented by amazing technologists, it's just not enough." And that's just one of the many classic competitive moats which Cassie flags as reducing in value.
-Asad highlights how rapid AI advancements are forcing companies to continuously rethink their competitive moats and sales motions, stating, "There are no product advantages that are long-lasting anymore."
Connect with the Hosts & Guests 
Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/ 
Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/ 
Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/ 
Guest: Cassie Young - https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassyoung/
Topline is more than a YouTube Channel: 
Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter 
Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast 
Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack

Chapters:
00:00 Cassie Young Joins Topline
04:37 Raising a $625M Seed Fund
08:08 How Primary Wins Seed Deals
12:56 The 6 Trillion AI Opportunity
19:04 Can AI CRMs Beat Salesforce
29:14 Gross Retention Apocalypse
40:12 Myth of the Zero CAC CEO
46:58 Eradicating Switching Costs
53:15 Backing Go-to-Market Founders