The Digital Agency Growth Podcast

What actually drives agency growth when pipelines are noisy, buyers are skeptical, and everyone sounds the same?In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Alex Marshall, a longtime agency growth leader with two decades of experience across holding companies and independents, to unpack what really moves the needle. They explore why trust and relevance matter more than tactics, how storytelling shows up late in the sales cycle, and why relationships compound over time even when results aren’t immediate.This is a grounded conversation about growth as a discipline, not a hack. 🧭 What You’ll LearnThe real differences between growth at holding companies vs independentsWhy agency specialization can both help and hurt salesHow storytelling works after the first sales callWhy “just checking in” emails failWhat actually reactivates dormant or boomerang clientsHow to stay relevant to skeptical CMOsWhy relationship-building beats short-term metricsHow agencies should think about referrals and alliances🕒 Timestamps00:00 – Alex’s background and global agency experience  04:30 – Holding companies vs independents: growth tradeoffs 06:00 – Relationship-building across regions and cultures 10:20 – When specialization helps — and when it limits you 16:45 – Storytelling as a sales tool, not just marketing 20:40 – Coalition-building in complex B2B sales 23:30 – Re-engaging dormant and boomerang clients 26:40 – Why timing and relevance matter more than frequency 29:20 – Managing time across the full funnel 32:10 – Measuring progress without over-relying on metrics 35:00 – Selling to skeptical CMOs in uncertain markets 38:00 – Why referrals and trust compound over time 41:00 – Strategic partnerships and being “something to someone” 45:45 – Making referral asks easier — and more effective

What if the agencies that crush Q1 aren't working harder in January, they're making one  or two critical decisions right now, in December?In this solo episode, Dan reveals why Q1 consistently catches agencies off-guard and what separates those who stumble into the new year from those who hit the ground running. The secret isn't about working through the holidays or setting ambitious goals—it's about installing a systematic referral system during Q4's quieter moments. What You'll Leave With:Why trust, not awareness, became the scarce resource after 2020 and how it changes your approachThe four stages agencies move through and how to identify which phase you're stuck inThe "high school gym vs. NFL stadium" test for choosing the right lead generation strategy based on market sizeHow to structure connector calls to get 2-5 quality referrals from a single conversationThe simple human emotion that makes people actually follow through on promised introductionsA two-pronged outreach system that keeps your pipeline full even when you're buried in client workWhy making it easier for people to help you eliminates the awkwardness of asking for referralsThe one free data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platformsTimestamps:[00:00] Introduction: The strange Q4 gap period and what's coming[02:33] The Cobbler's children phase and why most agencies get stuck there[05:00] The four stages of agency growth and how they're detached from revenue[09:15] The 2020 trust recession and why cold outreach stopped working[12:30] High school gym vs. NFL stadium: Choosing the right strategy for your market[16:45] The systematic referral framework: How to generate warm intros weekly[21:20] Structuring connector calls to get 2-5 referrals per conversation[24:10] The emotional game changer that makes introductions actually happen[27:17] Common objections: "This seems like too much work" and "I'm worried about asking for help"[29:35] How this scales beyond your initial network (sprint, jog, run phases)[31:54] The Referral Engine Program and Referral Network Diagnostic offerQuotes: "A lot of agencies end up in level two, which we call the Cobbler's children phase. They have a track record, they've produced results for clients, but new business is very reactive—it's very much catch as catch can." — Dan Englander"After 2020, we saw a massive shift. Trust became the scarce resource, not awareness. Everyone's inbox is full, everyone's LinkedIn is saturated, and people have gotten really good at tuning out anything that feels like cold outreach." — Dan Englander"If you're getting on a call a day—like an apple a day keeps the doctor away—or five calls a week, that is usually more than enough to hit 99% of sales goals." — Dan Englander

If you’re planning your 2026 biz dev strategy without real market data, you’re guessing. In this episode, I talk with friend of the show Nicholas Petroski, founder of Promethean Research and creator of the Digital Agency Referral Playbook, about what the numbers actually say—and how top agencies are using referrals, account growth, and GTM clarity to build next year’s plan. This is the clearest look you’ll get at what’s really moving the needle heading into 2026.🧭 What You’ll LearnThe referral trends shaping 2026 pipeline planningWhy most agencies misread pipeline healthWhat data actually predicts account growthThe role of referrals in a tighter 2026 GTMWho should really own the referral processHow to identify your most valuable connectorsWhy “good work” isn’t enough to drive introsWhat the best shops are fixing before January🕒 Timestamps00:00 – Why 2026 planning requires real data 01:02 – Nick’s new research & why referrals matter now 03:11 – From Random to Repeatable: core findings 05:45 – Why agencies still handle referrals passively 07:29 – The shrinking TAM + rising skepticism problem 09:22 – Who should own referrals (and who shouldn’t) 12:40 – Cross-sell models that actually grow accounts 14:36 – Pipeline health vs conversion vs system health 18:07 – How to operationalize intros without friction 23:59 – The risk of relying on 1–2 referral sources 27:26 – Why referrals must be part of your GTM 29:15 – The mindset shift from “salesy” to consultative 33:00 – What the data says agencies must fix for 2026🔑 Key Quotes“Referrals work—if you treat them like a system, not a hope.” — Nick Petroski“Agencies don’t have a lead problem. They have a clarity problem.” — Nick Petroski📢 Links and Resources From Random to Repeatable: How Agencies Turn Referrals into a Reliable Growth EngineIf you want a repeatable referral system heading into 2026, grab my book 📘 Relationship Sales at Scale

Most agencies try to fix pipeline by working harder, but not by working smarter.This conversation digs into why outbound has gotten tougher, what’s changed in the last decade, and how agencies can build a healthier, more defensible acquisition motion. We cover the shift from brute-force outreach to signal-driven, trust-based systems, why TAM size changes everything, and how sales and marketing need to operate as a single unit for mid-market deals. It’s a clear look at the mechanics behind winning in a crowded outreach landscape. Michael Maximoff is the co-founder of Belkins and the team behind Folderly. He’s spent more than a decade solving the same problems agencies face today: building predictable pipeline in a crowded, trust-heavy market, balancing marketing and sales investment, and adapting outbound to a world that no longer responds to direct pitches.Why cold outreach used to work with simple tools and high volume, and why that era is overHow inbox competition jumped from ~100 cold pitches/month per decision-maker to 800+ todayWhy small TAMs require a different playbook and more precision, not more activityThe importance of costly signals, warm intros, and touch-point-driven credibility instead of direct pitchesHow sales and marketing must operate in tandem to create “surround sound” and increase conversion likelihoodWhy mid-market agencies should hire full-cycle AEs who can build their own book of businessThe danger of giving SDRs outdated brute-force mandates in a world where the role is now a technical, marketing-adjacent functionHow deeper integrations (HubSpot, Salesforce, Clay) are reshaping outreach, personalization, and data orchestrationWhy agencies must choose the channel they have a true “genetic advantage” for.Links & ResourcesBelkins — https://belkins.ioFolderly — https://folderly.comMichael on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximoff 

In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Garrett Jestice, former CMO and founder of Prelude, to unpack how to turn that randomness into a repeatable Go-To-Market (GTM) system that actually compounds.Garrett helps B2B agencies and service businesses replace scattered marketing efforts with a focused GTM strategy built on customer proof — clarifying audience, offer, messaging, and channels so growth stops being a guessing game.They break down why most agencies start with the wrong things (channels before clarity), how to pick the right market segment, and how to make growth repeatable without losing focus or burning resources. What You’ll LearnWhy most agencies get stuck after $1M — and how to fix itThe four foundations of a real GTM system: Audience, Offer, Messaging, ChannelsHow to pick one market segment and own it (without overthinking TAM)Why you can’t scale custom work — and what to do insteadThe “maintenance and support” offer that helped one agency grow fasterWhen to productize vs. stay bespokeHow to make referrals and warm intros systematic, not luckyWhy every audience–offer combo needs its own GTM strategyHow to align sales, marketing, and delivery around the same message