In this episode we're joined by Pablo Borelli, co-founder of Ovis 21, the Savory Hub in Argentina. With a background in agronomy and extensive experience in Holistic Management, Pablo shares insights on how Ovis 21 has impacted over 26 million hectares and trained over 5,000 people in Holistic Management over the last decade. The conversation explores Pablo’s journey, the underlying principles and key insights of Holistic Management, and the transformative effects it has had on Patagonian grasslands and livestock management. Plus, dive into case studies and real-world applications that highlight the importance of planned grazing, recovery periods, and the ecological benefits of regenerative agriculture.
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00:00 Intro
04:35 Challenges and Innovations in Holistic Management
10:05 Early Adoption and Training in Patagonia
26:39 Holistic Management Principles and Practices
39:57 Understanding Holistic Grazing Plans
40:20 Redefining Overgrazing
43:25 The Concept of Overresting
48:08 Four Key Insights of Holistic Management
50:29 Importance of Holistic Context
58:16 Holistic Planned Grazing Explained
01:04:39 Recovery Periods in Grazing Plans
01:11:53 Advice for New Holistic Managers
01:13:09 The Future of Regenerative Grazing
01:20:22 Final Thoughts
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This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year:
👉 https://savory.global/member
Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast
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Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313
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1:23:34
The Nutritional Merits of Animal Sourced Foods
In this episode of Ruminations, we sit down with registered dietician and author Diana Rodgers to discuss her recent peer-reviewed paper on the nutritional benefits of animal-sourced foods. We delve into the challenges and biases she faced in getting her research published and break down common misconceptions about meat consumption. The conversation covers detailed nutritional information, the importance of protein, iron, zinc, B12, and the environmental and ethical aspects of meat production. Additionally, Diana shares her personal journey and announces her shift towards a new chapter in life centered around art and community.
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ALL EPISODES:
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TIME STAMPS:
00:00 Intro
05:25 Challenges in Nutrition and Dietetics
14:32 Understanding Scientific Studies
23:56 Nutritional Benefits of Red Meat
33:59 Protein Intake and Dietary Recommendations
45:10 Exploring Protein Needs for Older Adults
46:31 Challenges in Publishing Nutrition Research
48:12 Historical Roots of Anti-Meat Bias
54:30 Nutritional Benefits of Red Meat
01:04:50 Debunking Anti-Meat Arguments
01:18:23 Advice for Vegetarians and Vegans
01:23:28 Transitioning to a New Chapter
01:27:10 Final Thoughts and Resources
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This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $15/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member
Want to sponsor an episode?
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Considering the Nutritional Benefits and Health Implications of Red Meat in the Era of Meatless Initiatives – https://doi.org/10.3389/fnut.2025.1525011
Sacred Cow documentary – https://youtu.be/hjyBUk6AQ1M?si=Y6ZvTnkeMcibbXmg
Sacred Cow (book) by Diana Rodgers & Robb Wolf – https://savory.global/science_library/sacred-cow-the-case-for-better-meat/
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon – https://drgabriellelyon.com
Olivia Robertson Moe – https://www.instagram.com/revolveprimalhealth/
Rachel Paul (The College Nutritionist) – https://www.drrachelpaul.com/
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Stay in Touch with Diana
sustainabledish.com
@sustainabledish
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FIND US ON SOCIAL:
YouTube: @SavoryInstitute
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/
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1:32:55
Opening the Gate For a New Generation of Cowgirls
Beth Robinette is a fourth-generation cattle rancher, educator, and co-founder of New Cowgirl Camp (https://www.newcowgirlcamp.com/) who joins the podcast to talk about what it really means to build a more inclusive, resilient future for agriculture.
From her roots on the Lazy R Ranch in Washington’s channeled scablands to her work leading education at UVE (a Savory Hub covering the Intermountain West region of the US), Beth shares how she’s blending business, ecology, and equity to reimagine land stewardship.
The discussion covers being a second-generation Holistic Management practitioner, why creating a safe environment is essential to learning, and how cultural restoration—like digging camas with Salish youth—can deepen our relationship with the land. This is a powerful conversation about leadership, belonging, and making space for new voices in ranching.
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ALL EPISODES:
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JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS:
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TIME STAMPS:
[03:25] Beth's Family Ranching History
[06:43] Transition to Holistic Management
[10:59] Beth's Personal Journey and Education
[15:32] Challenges and Insights in Ranching
[21:32] New Cowgirl Camp: Empowering Women in Ranching
[27:15] Community Building and Future of Agriculture
[50:09] Savory Institute and Global Impact
[55:12] Hunters of Color and Reciprocal Goodness
[58:07] Diverse Backgrounds and Good Food
[58:38] Relearning Land History
[01:01:05[ Indigenous Land Management
[01:04:41[ Collaboration with Salish School
[01:16:33] Challenges and Adaptations in Land Management
[01:35:46] Future Vision and Community Building
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This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $10/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member
Want to sponsor an episode?
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Lazy R Ranch
New Cowgirl Camp
Roots of Resilience
Salish School of Spokane
UVE - Intermountain West Savory Hub
Savory’s Earth Day Giveaway
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FIND US ON SOCIAL:
YouTube: @SavoryInstitute
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/
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1:53:34
Running a Grassfed and Regenerative Dairy Farm
In this episode of Ruminations, we’re joined by Paul and Phyllis Van Amburgh of Dharma Lea—a 100% grass-fed, holistically managed dairy in upstate New York. They share their unlikely journey from first-time conventional dairy farmers to nationally recognized leaders in regenerative agriculture. What changed everything? Holistic Management.
We get into the weeds of what that transition really looked like—from the tough decisions and mindset shifts to the practical changes on the ground. By moving from rotational to holistic planned grazing, they extended their grazing season by 120%, slashed feed costs, and brought herd health to a whole new level—cutting mastitis rates from 73% to just 3%.
But their impact didn’t stop at the farm gate. Paul and Phyllis helped build the supply chain for Maple Hill Creamery, guiding over 125 farms in making the leap to grass-fed. Today, they mentor fellow farmers who want to build operations that are ecologically sound, financially viable, and deeply rooted in values.
This is a candid, practical, and inspiring conversation about what it really takes to go regenerative—and why it’s worth it.
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ALL EPISODES:
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JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS:
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TIME STAMPS:
[5:33] Life on the farm
[13:00] Why they built a family-run business
[26:41] Getting into farming
[37:24] Unlearning old business habits
[43:40] Grass-fed vs grain-fed: financial insights
[57:55] Transition to 100% grass-fed dairy
[58:00] Managing yield drag & system change
[1:04:33] Improving soil health
[1:07:29] Understanding forage & nutrition
[1:16:38] From utilization to recovery mindset
[1:32:21] Planned vs rotational grazing
[1:39:09] Advice for transitioning farmers
[1:47:07] What changed slowly over time
[1:52:11] Visiting Dimbangombe in Zimbabwe
[1:59:32] Future of regenerative agriculture
[2:10:21] Closing
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This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $10/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member
Want to sponsor an episode? [sponsorship link]
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Dharma Lea Dairy
Maple Hill Creamery
Less Stress, More Grass Case Study
Africa Centre for Holistic Management
Savory’s Earth Day Giveaway
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FIND US ON SOCIAL:
YouTube: @SavoryInstitute
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE:
Spotify
Apple Podcasts
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HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION?
We’d love to hear your thoughts. Suggest future guests here: https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997
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2:13:19
Running a Regenerative Business with Tre Cates
Regenerative Business and Living Systems Design with Tre Cates
In this episode of Ruminations, host Bobby Gill delves into regenerative business practices with Tre Cates, founder of nRhythm. They explore the concepts of living systems design, organizational health, and the distinction between managing complexity versus control. Cates shares his experiences from working with the Savory Institute, the development of the Savory Hub model, and the transformation of businesses by applying regenerative principles. This episode offers deep insights into creating resilient and thriving organizations by focusing on the interconnectedness of people, processes, and the environment.
Tre Cates is the founder of nRhythm, a consulting firm helping organizations around the world design systems that align with the principles of life itself—complexity, emergence, resilience, and interconnectedness.
In this episode of @SavoryInstitute’s Ruminations podcast, Tre joins us to explore:
- What It Means to Design a Regenerative Organization
- The Difference Between Complicated and Complex Systems (and -- Why It Matters)
- How Businesses Can Create the Conditions for Life, Not Just Profit
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ALL EPISODES:
https://savory.global/podcast
JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS:
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TIME STAMPS:
00:35 Meet Tre Cates: Founder of nRhythm
01:18 Savory Institute and Holistic Management
01:39 Exploring Complexity and Leadership
02:12 Sponsor Message: Savory Journey Giveaway
04:15 Conversation with Tre Cates Begins
05:42 Understanding the Cartesian Split
08:38 Complexity in Agriculture and Beyond
16:54 Managing Complexity vs. Control
28:27 Patterns and Principles of Living Systems
32:09 nRhythm's Approach to Regenerative Organizations
43:27 Foundational Beliefs and Operational Identity
44:52 Monitoring Health and Emergence
51:20 Understanding Governance Structures
53:00 Creating Conditions for Success
55:42 Monitoring for Emergence
56:55 Embracing Emergence in Organizations
01:11:34 Case Study: Transforming a Boutique Firm
01:18:44 The Savory Hub Network and Decentralization
01:26:13 Influential Thinkers and Schools of Thought
01:33:19 Future Patterns and Societal Shifts
01:44:00 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
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This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through holistic management. Join today for just $10/month and help regenerate 400+ acres every year:
https://savory.global/member
Want to sponsor an episode? https://savory.global/podcast
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
nRhythm
• Savory Institute
• Holistic Management
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FIND US ON SOCIAL:
YouTube: @SavoryInstitute
Instagram: @savoryinstitute
LinkedIn: Savory Institute
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HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION?
We’d love to hear your thoughts:
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Canada - english