Training Data

Rich Sutton, who helped pioneer reinforcement learning and wrote the seminal AI essay The Bitter Lesson, has now cofounded Oak Lab with his former student Khurram Javed. Their goal: to build agents that continuously learn from their own experience rather than from us. Rich doesn't think he holds a radical view: "I'm not weird. The field is weird." He says all learning is continual, and the field is the one that needed a new name for it. Rich and Khurram argue synthetic data is "a big mistake." Their "big world hypothesis" is that the world is massively more complex than any agent or simulator, so approximations have to be updated continuously rather than frozen at deployment. Rich calls LLMs an unanticipated scientific breakthrough, but says they represent roughly a quarter of intelligence. He says catastrophic forgetting is "totally curable" with the ideas behind their continual backprop algorithm. Khurram explains why the frontier labs can't follow: they sit in a local minimum where a new paradigm gets worse before it gets better. Their target, five to ten years out, is a trillion-parameter mind that keeps learning, stays coherent, and runs on 20 watts.

Hosted by Sonya Huang and Alfred Lin, Sequoia Capital

Most people treat biology as a bespoke, messy science. Josh Meier and Matt McPartlon, co-founders of Chai Discovery, treat it as an engineering problem. They make the case that drug design obeys the bitter lesson: scale data, models, and compute, and the model can learn what a hand-built pipeline simply couldn't capture. The results are concrete: Chai-2 pushed de novo antibody design from a sub 0.1% hit rate to 16%, turning a needle-in-a-haystack search into something more like designing a key to fit a lock. Josh argues, counterintuitively, that biology is more verifiable than code, and explains why the goal should be more lab experiments, not fewer. Their bet: a design suite that collapses drug discovery from nine months to nine days, and arms the pharma industry rather than competing with it.

Hosted by Pat Grady and Sonali Singh, Sequoia Capital

00:00 Introduction
01:52 From Discovery to Design
03:25 Protein AI Breakthroughs Timeline
06:04 Why Start in 2024
10:13 Diffusion Models Intuition
11:41 Building the Avengers Team
15:22 Hit Rates and Scaling Laws
25:01 Molecular CAD Vision
25:24 Faster Design Loops
26:32 Future Drug Discovery
28:37 Platform Business Model
31:14 Partnering Reality Check
33:44 Data Flywheel Explained
37:16 Staying Ahead at Scale
39:44 Culture and What's Next

Jerry Tworek led reasoning at OpenAI, convinced that scaling reinforcement learning was the path to AGI. Rohan Anil co-led Gemini pre-training and built the Shampoo optimizer. Now they've teamed up at Core Automation on a contrarian premise: the transformer has carried us as far as it can, and the bottleneck to smarter systems is no longer scale — it's the architecture itself. The missing capability is continual learning, models that adapt at test time, which transformers can't do. In-context learning taps out fast (Codex needs compacting after ~20 minutes) and fine-tuning invites catastrophic forgetting. Rohan argues pre-training and RL should be optimized end-to-end, and that transformers spend computation inefficiently. They lay out why the largest labs won't chase alternatives while locked in the coding-agent race, and why building the world's most automated lab starts with automating kernel generation—the one place frontier models still lose to a high-taste human.

Hosted by Sonya Huang and Pat Grady, Sequoia Capital

Factory started building fully autonomous coding agents in April 2023, two years before enterprises were ready. Matan Grinberg now says this is indistinguishable from being wrong. The Factory co-founder and CEO explains how the company survived its "journey in the desert," including the decision to hand nearly all of its revenue back to customers when the product wasn't making developers obsessed. Matan makes the contrarian technical case that a model-agnostic harness beats the model-and-harness co-design that labs like OpenAI and Anthropic favor, because exposing a harness to many models keeps it from overfitting to any single one. He argues open-weight models like GLM will capture the majority of tokens by staying one generation behind the frontier at a fraction of the cost, and that CIOs will soon justify every incremental token the way they justify headcount. Looking ahead, he predicts 90% of coding tokens will run asynchronously—the "dark factory" where software builds itself.

Hosted by Sonya Huang and Pat Grady, Sequoia Capital

Katelyn Lesse and Angela Jiang lead the team building Anthropic's developer platform - the layer that both outside builders and Anthropic's own products run on top of. Angela frames the platform as a three-layer stack: knowledge, execution, and coordination. She argues the real leverage is what’s at the top: "strategies," or meta-harnesses that give each token a different job, from advising to executing to reflecting to memory. On the question of open ecosystem vs. walled garden, they say they aren't precious about owning the stack. Katelyn points to Anthropic's self-hosted sandboxes with partners like Modal, Vercel, and Cloudflare. Whether the work runs on Anthropic's infrastructure or someone else's, what really matters to them is that the architecture is sound. The deeper bet is standards: they hand skills and MCP to the whole industry, build connectors on the MCP spec, and help agents (Claude and non-Claude) work together. The one place they stay closed is model routing: they argue harnesses should be tuned to a model family, so they're designing for Claude rather than routing across models. Angela's frame for the ecosystem bet is electricity: transformative only because everyone could plug in, and no company wired it alone.Hosted by Sonya Huang and Lauren Reeder, Sequoia Capital

00:00 Introduction

01:49 Two North Stars

02:27 External Builders And Primitives

03:54 What To Externalize

06:00 From Messages To Agents

08:19 Managed Agents Adoption

09:07 Three Layer Cake

10:22 Execution Harnesses Explained

11:09 Coordination Strategies Roadmap

12:13 Ecosystem Standards And Safety

15:39 Open Ecosystem Not Walled

17:12 Vertical Products And Form Factors

22:26 Claude Tag Under The Hood

26:04 Harness Best Practices

38:13 Token Costs And Whats Next