Product Growth Podcast

• How to Upskill from Core PM to Great AI PM: Masterclass from Pendo CEO Todd Olson

  Today’s EpisodeAI PM jobs pay 30-40% more than regular PM jobs.But here’s the problem: You can’t just slap “AI PM” on your resume.Todd Olson has spent 28 years in product management, VP of Product at a public company, then founder of Pendo, now a $2.5B product management platform working with everyone from American Cancer Society to Zendesk.----Check out the conversation on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.Brought to you by - Reforge:Get 1 month free of Reforge Build (the AI prototyping tool built for PMs) with code BUILD----Key Takeaways1. AI PM market exploded - Last year 10% of PM jobs were AI PM jobs. This year it's 20%. They pay 30-40% more because of scarcity and skill level. But Todd warns: "You better damn well be good and know what you're talking about if you're gonna call yourself an AI PM because we are going to interrogate the hell out of it."2. Real requirement is production at scale - Not "I built prototype at 1-person startup." Hiring managers want 20,000 paying B2B customers experiencing your AI feature successfully. To get there: upskill internally at current company by shipping AI features on your roadmap.3. The 5-layer technical pyramid - Foundation: AI/ML fundamentals, data pipelines, prompt engineering. Middle: Observability (trace analysis), cost optimization, evals. Top: Product strategy, stakeholder management, leadership. You need to climb all 5 layers. Most PMs stop at layer 1.4. RAG is table stakes - "RAG is the de facto way to build." You ingest data, create embeddings, feed into vector database, look up relevant context, pass to LLM. Todd: "If you put too much in context window, just like a human, you get confused. You want to give the right context."5. PM-engineering tension is real - At startups, PMs do trace analysis. At large companies, engineering managers push back: "This is my world. I don't want some PM shadowing me." Similar to Data Dog—most PMs don't have login. Know the line. Be fluent but respect boundaries.6. But evals are YOUR domain - Unlike trace analysis, evals are where PMs are the expert. "The PM is probably the best-suited human being to author and manage eval sets." You understand user and business needs. Engineers don't have that context. This is must-have competency now.7. Cost optimization will matter - Some AI companies have sub-15% gross margins. Traditional software is 70-80%. Todd: "It's not a business at sub-15%." Eventually you'll rearchitect systems because infrastructure is too costly. Rule: when something's faster, it's cheaper (both buying compute).8. Solve hard problems, not shiny objects - Todd's test: "Are we gonna do much better job than ChatGPT out of box? Why would we just wrap that and slap Pendo logo on it?" His discovery agent example: hard part isn't interviewing customers—it's finding which to interview, prioritizing, scheduling. Automate that workflow.9. Kill bad features ruthlessly - Todd shipped features couple years ago that weren't great and turned them off. "Too often we hold on to something. Turn them off. Be unafraid. The more stuff in your product, the worse the experience is by default."10. Control the narrative with boards - Don't show up with no story and get crushed with random requests. Todd: "Show them how you actually run your business. I want to see what you're looking at, not something just made for me." Think deeply about how each bet drives shareholder value.----Where to Find Todd Olson* LinkedIn* Company* X----Related ContentPodcasts:* How to Become, and Succeed as, an AI PM | The Marily Nika Episode* If you only have 2 hrs, this is how to become an AI PM* Complete Course: AI Product ManagementNewsletters:* How to Become an AI Product Manager with No Experience* How to Write a Killer AI Product Manager Resume* How to become an AI Product Manager----PS. Please subscribe on YouTube and follow on Apple & Spotify. It helps!----If you want to advertise, email productgrowthppp at gmail. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.news.aakashg.com/subscribe

  --------  

  1:11:39

  --------

  1:11:39
• How Product Leaders Should Use AI, with Webflow CPO Rachel Wolan

  Today’s EpisodeThere are tons of tutorials about Claude Code and Cursor for IC PMs.But what about leaders?Today’s episode is a masterclass on both sides of AI product leadership. How to be a productive AI leader and how to ship AI-native features at scale.Rachel Wolan is the Chief Product Officer at Webflow, the $4 billion company powering TED Talks, SoundCloud, and Reddit.Rachel walks through building her agentic Chief of Staff live, sets up a LinkedIn post generator from scratch, and shares the brutal lessons from launching Webflow’s AI app generator.----Brought to you by:Linear: The task management platform dethroning Jira-----Key Takeaways:1. IC CPO means self-serving answers - "As a leader, you are able to get your own answers to practically any question." No waiting on data scientists. No back-and-forth with analytics. You have tools to self-serve insights, make analysis, automate workflows. Model behavior for your team to inspire them.2. Calendar agent analyzes time - Runs weekly with prompt: "Analyze my calendar for last two weeks. Where could I delegate?" Returns delegation opportunities, red flags (double bookings, context switching), what to cut next week. Rachel gives output to EA. Spot on when shown live.3. Email agent watches behavior - Complete inbox access. Runs triage, archives junk (calendar notifications, marketing), pins important messages, creates draft replies. Twist: watches behavior. If email sits too long, it notices. Caught meeting missing link. Rachel's rule: agent recommends, she approves. No autonomous sending.4. Analytics agent via MCP - Connected Claude Code to Snowflake via MCP servers (not officially supported repos, just fed them to Claude Code). Ask natural language questions, get SQL executed real-time. "How many sites does Shirts.com have?" Claude writes query, authenticates via SSO, returns answer. Data scientist in pocket.5. Accept the adoption curve - Your org follows standard curve: early adopters, early majority, late adopters, laggards. Create pathways for everyone to ascend ladder at their pace. Don't force everyone to be you. Rachel to team: "I only want to see prototypes when you have meetings with me." Creates culture investing in prototype quality.6. Builder Days strategy - Give everyone access: Claude Code licenses, MCP to Snowflake/Tableau, Figma Make, Cursor with design system. Run Builder Days where champions help others through technical hurdles. Everyone demos something outside comfort zone. Results: 0% to 30% of designers using Cursor weekly after first Design Builder Day.7. Rewrite career ladder - Webflow rewriting career ladder to make AI-native work an expectation, not nice-to-have. Create right incentives. Make sure people supported. Avoid AI for AI's sake. Example: Two designers built similar prototypes. Director caught early: "Go harmonize your prototypes now." Easier now than late in product cycle.8. MVO before MVP framework - Most teams: Feature → PRD → Design → Ship. Rachel flips it. MVO (Minimal Viable Output) before MVP. Get model's output right FIRST using RAG, prompt engineering, context engineering. Only then build feature. "If you don't have desired outputs, don't spend time productizing the AI feature."9. Evals are now your job - Brutal story: Webflow's AI app generator 2 weeks from launch. Rachel tested it. Agent kept dying. Realized: changed underlying model, evals didn't have coverage. Evals = test cases for models. Want dream evals (should pass) and edge cases (should fail). Use BrainTrust. Teaching PMs to write evals is part of AI PM toolkit now.10. Build on your strengths - Framework: See trend → Is it applicable to customers? → What's YOUR core competency? Webflow's strength: bringing visitors to front door via CMS. Built production-grade app generator (not prototype like Lovable). Uses your brand, CMS, hosting, security. "We're bringing a way to prompt an app to production." Don't copy trends, leverage unique strengths.-----Where to Find Rachel Wolan * LinkedIn* Website* X----Related Content* Claude Code Tutorial for AI PMs* AI Agents for PMs in 69 Minutes, with IBM VP* 5 AI Agents Every PM Should Build, with CEO of LindyNewsletters:* AI Evals Guide for PMs* Prompt Engineering for AI Agents* AI Agents: The Ultimate Guide for PMs----PS. Please subscribe on YouTube and follow on Apple & Spotify. It helps----If you want to advertise, email productgrowthppp at gmail. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.news.aakashg.com/subscribe

  --------  

  21:36

  --------

  21:36
• Context Engineering: The Secret Behind $10M ARR in 60 Days, with Kuse Founder Xiankun Wu

  Today’s EpisodeWhy do your prompts keep failing?You write the perfect prompt. The AI spits out garbage. You tweak. You iterate. You spend hours getting mediocre results.XK built Cues to $10M ARR in 60 days with zero VC funding and zero advertising. Today, he’s dropping the complete playbook:-----Check out the conversation on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.Brought to you by:Reforge http://reforge.com/aakash-----Key takeaways:1. Context engineering beats prompting - One prompt won't work. Like hiring someone who knows nothing about your company—impossible to get results in 5 seconds. Accumulate context, build knowledge base, let AI know you over time. Combines system prompts, user prompts, memory, and RAG.2. The Mom analogy - Your mom knows your preferences, goals (grow taller for basketball), what makes you happy. She doesn't need detailed instructions. That's context engineering. AI that knows you creates better results and positive loops.3. Threads growth hack - Created hundreds of accounts posting use cases daily. Zero ad spend. Why it works: Threads gives traffic generously, less crowded than X, no creator hierarchy. Result: 3M impressions/month, hundreds of daily visits. Targeted Taiwan/Hong Kong markets.4. MVO before MVP - Traditional: Feature → PRD → Design → Ship. Xiankun's way: Get model output right FIRST. Use RAG, prompting, fine-tuning for Minimal Viable Output. Then productize. "If no desired outputs, don't spend time productizing."5. Visual context engineering - Use spatial tools: draw squares, graphs, sketches. AI understands spatial relationships. Unlike ChatGPT where files disappear, Kuse gives 2D space to store/reuse. Graphic operating system for AI that compounds.6. The pivot story - Started as design agent. Users uploaded documents instead. Knowledge base usage far exceeded design. Pivoted to horizontal knowledge-based AI. Listen to your users.7. Why X sucks for growth - Structured creator hierarchy. Can't farm traffic without famous connections. Good for VC fundraising, terrible for user acquisition. Threads and Instagram are underserved with real users.8. Compounding context power - Regular chatbots: one-off, context disappears. Kuse: processes files when you're away, pre-prepares everything. Like having ingredients ready vs ordering each time. Each interaction improves.9. Trading company origin - Co-founded YC company, created trading company, made money, funded Kuse with profits. Built without VC pressure. "Entrepreneurship is a game of focus." Building without chasing VC gives fresh perspective.10. Future vision: productivity playground - "Not building productivity tool, building playground." When AI takes jobs (2030-2040), people need fulfillment. Kuse is amusement park where people pretend to work, feel satisfaction. Going to pure pleasure, not efficiency.----Where to Find Xiankun Wu* LinkedIn* Threads* Company----Related ContentPodcasts:* We Built an AI Employee in 62 mins* Conversation with the CEO and Founder of Bolt* This $20M AI Founder Is Challenging Elon and Sam Altman | Roy Lee, CluelyNewsletters:* Context Engineering Guide* Prompt Engineering in 2025* How to become an AI Product Manager----PS. Please subscribe on YouTube and follow on Apple & Spotify. It helps!----If you want to advertise, email productgrowthppp at gmail. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.news.aakashg.com/subscribe

  --------  

  43:33

  --------

  43:33
• How to Land an AI PM Job: Complete Roadmap from Hamza Farooq

  Today’s EpisodeThe salary for AI PMs is skyrocketing.Hamza Farooq works with companies like Home Depot, Trip Adviser, and Jack in the Box on their AI strategy. He teaches AI PM courses at Stanford, UCLA, and Maven.Today, he’s giving you the complete 6-month roadmap to go from no experience to PM at OpenAI or Anthropic.We built a live AI prototype in 30 minutes (with RAG and agents working). And Hamza breaks down the exact technical skills you need to master.----Check out the conversation on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.Brought to you by:* Maven* Amplitude: The market-leader in product analytics* Vanta: Leading AI compliance platform* NayaOne* Kameleoon: Leading AI experimentation platform----Key Takeaways:1. AI PM salaries are skyrocketing - The median total comp for AI PMs is rapidly increasing. But now you need technical depth. Previously, you didn't need to know what RAG is or how fine-tuning works. Now you have to be a jack of all trades.2. We built a working prototype in 30 minutes - Live demo: Lovable for front-end + n8n for workflow automation + RAG connected and working. What used to take days now takes minutes. This is the power of modern AI PM tools.3. Context engineering is more important than prompt engineering - Prompt engineering is what you tell an LLM. Context engineering is how you design the instructions. You combine: system prompt, user prompt, memory (long-term), and RAG. This enables true personalization.4. Know the difference: fine-tuning vs RAG - Fine-tuning = adding new vocabulary (new words). RAG = adding new knowledge (new information). Use RAG for knowledge that changes frequently. Use fine-tuning for vocabulary or specialized response patterns.5. The 5-step architecture you need to master - Step 1: Understand what LLMs are. Step 2: Learn how to build applications. Step 3: Master prompt engineering. Step 4: Implement RAG systems. Step 5: Build agentic systems. Follow this roadmap on repeat.6. Use the three-wave approach for building - Wave 1: Save time (efficiency gains). Wave 2: Better quality (better output). Wave 3: Completely new (novel capabilities). Start with time-savers, progress to quality improvements, end with breakthrough innovations.7. Ask yourself 3 questions before building anything - Does it solve a user problem? Does it solve an organizational problem? Does it align with your business model? If yes to all three, build it. This validates every project.8. Build-first mentality wins - Don't just follow roadmaps. Keep building things. You have to learn by doing. The best way to become an AI PM is to build 10+ projects and see where your products fit in solving real business problems.9. Real-world example: Traversal.ai - Hamza's company works with manufacturers (Amazon suppliers, Jack in the Box, Home Depot). They built an army of agents processing 20,000 SKUs daily with demand forecasts. Results: better inventory optimization, planning, and cost savings.10. Teaching accelerates your own growth - Hamza makes 10-15% of revenue from Maven courses. Why keep teaching? "I teach because I grow." His foundation course builds empathy with users. His developer course uplifts his technical skills by working on real problems with senior engineers.----Where to Find Hamza Farooq* LinkedIn* NewsletterRelated ContentPodcasts:* Google AI PM Director drops an AI PM Masterclass* If you only have 2 hrs, this is how to become an AI PM* Complete Course: AI Product ManagementNewsletters:* How to Become an AI Product Manager with No Experience* How to Write a Killer AI Product Manager Resume* How to become an AI Product Manager----PS. Please subscribe on YouTube and follow on Apple & Spotify. It helps!----If you want to advertise, email productgrowthppp at gmail. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.news.aakashg.com/subscribe

  --------  

  28:44

  --------

  28:44
• I put the 5 best AI prototyping tools to the test with Magic Patterns CEO Alex Danilowicz

  Today’s EpisodeEvery PM needs to master AI prototyping in 2025.But which tool should you use? And how do you actually prototype effectively?Alex Danilowicz built Magic Patterns to $1M in revenue in 6 months. Today, we’re putting his tool against the competition live.We built the same prototype in 5 different tools and graded each one. Then Alex shared the exact workflow his customers use.----Check out the conversation on Apple, Spotify and YouTube.Brought to you by:Vanta: Leading AI compliance platformTestkube: Leading test orchestration platformKameleoon: Leading AI experimentation platformJira Product Discovery: Plan with purpose, ship with confidenceThe AI PM Certificate: Get $550 off with ‘AAKASH550C7’----Key Takeaways1. Different tools for different jobs - Magic Patterns excels at visual prototyping, user research, and design system integration. V0/Replit/Bolt excel at full-stack functionality, real APIs, and backend. We tested 5 tools live—V0 won (3.7 GPA), Magic Patterns second (3.6 GPA).2. Define your end goal before opening any tool - Sharing with customers = need design system. Internal validation = skip brand context. Alex's mistake in our face-off? He jumped into building without setting up his preset and wasted time retrofitting ChatGPT's Agent Kit styling later.3. Set up your design system in 5 minutes - Magic Patterns Chrome extension grabs components from Storybook, production sites, or Figma. Click "Convert to Component" and it's available in every prompt. Converts HTML to Tailwind automatically. 5 minutes upfront saves hours later.4. Gather context before prompting - Don't start with blank prompts. Common sources: Jira tickets, PRDs, competitor screenshots, customer feedback. Power users use ChatGPT/Claude to write their Magic Patterns prompts first.5. Use select mode for iterations - Vague prompts waste time. Bad: "Make it better." Good: "Move toast to top-left and make it green." Always click the exact element you want to change. The AI can't read your mind.6. The new product development workflow - Old: Write PRD → Align stakeholders → Build → Pray. New: Build prototype (30 min) → Share link → Test with customers → Iterate → Write PRD with learnings → Build validated solution. Cuts 15+ meetings down to 1.7. AI prototyping cuts failure rates in half - 80% of features don't hit their metrics. You're building blind. With prototypes, you validate: usability, viability, value, drop-offs, corner cases. Before: only test biggest features. Now: test every feature.8. Break out of doom loops - Pattern to avoid: "Doesn't work" repeated 10 times. Repeating the same prompt makes it worse. Use Magic Patterns' /debug command or restart with clearer prompt. Read the AI's output—it's having a conversation.9. Master the 4-step workflow - Step 0: Define end goal. Step 1: Set up design system (if needed). Step 2: Gather context (PRDs, screenshots). Step 3: Iterate specifically with select mode. This workflow helped Magic Patterns hit $1M revenue in 6 months.10. Know when to use each tool - Magic Patterns finished first in speed with best iteration quality. Replit prompted for OpenAI key (more functionality). Use Magic Patterns for: user validation, testing interactions. Use V0/Replit for: backend, real APIs, deployable prototypes.----Where to Find Alex Danilowicz* LinkedIn* Twitter/X* Website----Related ContentPodcasts:* Cursor Tutorial* Windsurf Tutorial* AI Prototyping TutorialNewsletters:* AI Agents: The Ultimate Guide for PMs* Ultimate Guide to AI Prototyping Tools* How to Land a $300K+ AI Product Manager Job----P.S. More than 85% of you aren’t subscribed yet. If you can subscribe on YouTube, follow on Apple & Spotify, my commitment to you is that we’ll continue making this content better.----If you want to advertise, email productgrowthppp at gmail. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.news.aakashg.com/subscribe

  --------  

  41:36

  --------

  41:36

More Business podcasts

Trending Business podcasts

About Product Growth Podcast