Holly and author Cody Cook-Parrott dive headfirst into the raw realities of staying regulated in an unregulated world. Cody shares their journey from near-mental breakdown to thriving queer rural life in Michigan, including the radical decision to permanently delete their 80,000-follower Instagram account while preparing to launch a book. Together, they explore the parallels between social media addiction and alcohol addiction, the art of building community in conservative small towns, and how to support trans loved ones during increasingly dangerous times. This conversation is a masterclass in attention as spiritual practice and choosing alignment over algorithm.Topics CoveredMental health maintenance and medication as life-saving tools; the parallels between social media addiction and alcohol addiction; building authentic community in rural areas; co-regulation and nervous system support; the challenge of being a public figure expected to have answers while still struggling; leaving Instagram permanently despite professional pressure and financial implications; the ethics of platform choices and leaving Substack; attention as a spiritual practice and defending one's time; supporting trans partners and creating safety in small communities; bathroom safety and allyship practices; rural queer life and finding chosen family; building sustainable businesses without social media dependence; email lists as alternatives to social platforms; the intersection of creativity, sobriety, and mental health; grief and the preciousness of time following Andrea Gibson's death; celebrating personal achievements and throwing parties for yourself; dating apps and unexpected love stories; navigating news consumption without social media overwhelm; Democracy Now and intentional media consumption; small town dynamics between queer couples and conservative neighbors; the responsibility of having a platform during political crises; fundraising for Palestinian relief through social media before leaving; the upcoming book "The Practice of Attention" coming March 17th, 2026AboutCody Cook-Parrott is a writer and artist living on Michigan's Leelanau Peninsula.Cody hosts the podcast Common Shapes, writes the newsletter Monday Monday, and is author of How to Not Always Be Working, Getting to Center, and The Practice of Attention (March 2026) With a BFA in Dance from University of Michigan and currently pursuing an MFA at Naropa University's Jack Kerouac School, their work has been featured in The New York Times, Vanity Fair, and Dance Magazine.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam Day, Kate SinesOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comTranscript Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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1:09:41
How To Stop Thinking Everyone Is Always Mad at You (Meg Josephson, Part 2)
In the second part of Holly's deep dive with Meg Josephson, they shift from understanding fawning to working with it. Continuing their exploration of Meg's book "Are You Mad At Me?", the conversation explores perfectionism as a protective mechanism, "secondhand fawning" through others, and the core shame beliefs that drive these patterns. Meg explains how healing happens through secure relationships and offers a compassionate framework for understanding these survival mechanisms. Holly reflects on how recognizing her fawn response has been foundational to her healing journey.Topics CoveredThe fawn trauma response and what it looks like; The six fawn archetypes (peacekeeper, caretaker, perfectionist, performer, chameleon, lone wolf); Complex relational trauma vs. single-incident trauma; How fawning develops as a survival mechanism in volatile homes; The intersection of fawning with ADHD and neurodivergence; Why digital communication amplifies "are you mad at me?" feelings; Chronic dysregulation and nervous system impacts; The connection between fawning and masking behaviors; Hypervigilance and external validation-seeking; How fawning shows up in romantic relationships.Meg Josephson BioMeg Josephson is a licensed therapist, meditation teacher, and author of "Are You Mad at Me? A Guide to Caring Less About What People Think." She integrates mindfulness-based practices with trauma-informed therapy, specializing in the fawn trauma response. After recognizing her own chronic hypervigilance patterns in her twenties, she discovered meditation during concussion recovery and pursued graduate training in therapy. Her work focuses on complex relational trauma and helping clients develop self-compassion for protective patterns that no longer serve them.Meg’s new book Are You Mad At Me? Is out now. She writes the Substack Peace of Mind. You can follow Meg on Instagram and TikTok.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Transcript available on patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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1:04:32
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1:04:32
Why We Think Everyone Is Always Mad at Us (Meg Josephson, Part 1)
Part 2 of this is available now on patreon for patrons of this show! Check us out here.In this first installment of a two-part series with therapist Meg Josephson, Holly and Meg unpack the fawn trauma response - the fourth trauma response that leaves people constantly wondering, "Are you mad at me?" Drawing from her new book of the same title (Are You Mad At Me?), Meg gives language to this internal hypervigilance that develops as a childhood survival mechanism. Holly shares her journey of recognizing chronic dysregulation and fawning patterns. They explore how this response intersects with neurodivergence, addiction recovery, and our digitally connected world that amplifies these feelings.Topics CoveredThe fawn trauma response and what it looks like; The six fawn archetypes (peacekeeper, caretaker, perfectionist, performer, chameleon, lone wolf); Complex relational trauma vs. single-incident trauma; How fawning develops as a survival mechanism in volatile homes; The intersection of fawning with ADHD and neurodivergence; Why digital communication amplifies "are you mad at me?" feelings; Chronic dysregulation and nervous system impacts; The connection between fawning and masking behaviors; Hypervigilance and external validation-seeking; How fawning shows up in romantic relationshipsMeg Josephson BioMeg Josephson is a licensed therapist, meditation teacher, and author of "Are You Mad at Me? A Guide to Caring Less About What People Think." She integrates mindfulness-based practices with trauma-informed therapy, specializing in the fawn trauma response. After recognizing her own chronic hypervigilance patterns in her twenties, she discovered meditation during concussion recovery and pursued graduate training in therapy. Her work focuses on complex relational trauma and helping clients develop self-compassion for protective patterns that no longer serve them.Meg’s new book Are You Mad At Me? Is out now. She writes the Substack Peace of Mind. You can follow Meg on Instagram and TikTok.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Transcript available here Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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59:29
Can You Heal a Friendship You Keep Burning Down? (Laura McKowen)
Holly and Laura sit down for their first public conversation in seven years, since the abrupt end of their previous podcast, Home, after a falling out. Peeling back the layers of what is, for each of them, their most complicated creative partnership and friendship. What started as two women finding each other on Instagram in 2013, who wanted to talk about sobriety and alcohol, became the wildly successful Home Podcast, a deep friendship, and eventually a painful, public dissolution that left both women changed forever. Now, after multiple reconciliations and breakups, they've found their way back to each other—not as business partners or co-hosts, but as friends who've done the hard work of growing up. This raw conversation explores the messy intersection of trauma, creativity, competition, and love, offering a rare glimpse into what it looks like when two people refuse to give up on each other despite repeatedly hurting each other in the process.Topics coveredMeeting on Instagram in early sobriety; the birth of Home Podcast in 2015; being two women talking about recovery in ways no one else was; rapid success and community building; the impossible dynamics of creative partnership between two traumatized people; patterns of competition and jealousy; the first breakup and reconciliation; the final dissolution of Home Podcast in January 2018; years of mutual obsession and surveillance from afar; failed attempts at reunion around book launches; the role of public success and private failure; learning to see each other's survival mechanisms; cord-cutting ceremonies and spiritual interventions; multiple cycles of coming together and falling apart; the 2025 reconciliation weekend; the difference between creative partnership and friendship; aging out of ambition; post-material achievement disillusionment; trauma responses that look like abuse; the challenge of being seen accurately; the rare gift of creative collaboration; narcissistic abuse patterns; the cost of cutting people off; what it means to grow up in public.BioLaura is the author of the bestselling memoir, We Are The Luckiest: The Surprising Magic of a Sober Life and Push Off From Here: Nine Essential Truths to Get You Through Life (and Everything Else), March 2023. She's working on her third book. She has written for The New York Times and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, The Atlantic, the TODAY show, and more. In 2020, she founded The Luckiest Club, a global sobriety support community. Laura lives with her daughter on the North Shore of Boston and writes the stellar newsletter Love Story.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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1:30:50
Why Christianity Is Still Calling Women Whores 2000 Years Later (Meggan Watterson)
Holly reunites with her friend, feminist theologian Meggan Watterson, to discuss her new book The Girl Who Baptized Herself Their conversation moves between Watterson's childhood religious trauma, academic mission to recover suppressed women's voices in early Christianity, and what it means to be called a heretic for telling the truth about women's spiritual authority. With raw vulnerability, both women explore how ancient stories of resistance mirror our current moment under Christian nationalism and an increasingly fascist America, the difference between going inward v. seeking external validation, and why small communities might be our salvation. This dialogue weaves personal transformation with spiritual rebellion, examining how the same patriarchal forces that silenced women 2000 years ago are still trying to control us today.Topics CoveredFeminist theology; reclaiming spiritual authority; suppressed Gnostic gospels, lost women's voices in Christianity; Thecla's story and the heroines journey; Constantine's co-optation of Christianity and the Council of Nicea; Mary Magdalene's true role versus her portrayal as a prostitute; bodily reactions to patriarchal doctrine; the diff btw transcendence and embodied spirituality; personal transformation through going inward during crisis; addiction patterns and the process of "getting sober sober"; the power of small communities versus institutional collapse; where the eff are the men/the "good man's" complicity and refusal to educate themselves on feminist issues and their own patriarchal narrative; living as a dissident under Christian nationalism; breaking free from external validation and worth-proving; the role of vulnerability, truth-telling in healing.About MegganMeggan Watterson is a renowned feminist theologian and the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Mary Magdalene Revealed. She has a Master of Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School and a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary at Columbia University. She created The House of Mary Magdalene—a spiritual community that studies sacred texts left out of the traditional canon. Her work has appeared in media outlets such as The New York Times, The Huffington Post, TEDxWomen, and Marie Claire. Meggan writes the Substack The Girl Who Baptized Herself and her new book The Girl Who Baptized Herself is out now.“Now more than ever, we need this two-thousand-year-old story to remind us that our power is not in any external force, but within. And that it is with our own self-authority, our own self-blessing, and our own naked revolt to claim it. This isn’t a story; it’s a playbook.”—Holly Whitaker, author of Quit Like a WomanCreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
co-regulation is a podcast hosted by Holly Whitaker (HOME, QUITTED) that creates space for authentic conversations about how we're navigating this period of societal upheaval and profound transition. Through conversations with thinkers, artists, and experts, informed by Holly's perspective on addiction, recovery, and the intersection of personal healing and cultural systems, this show invites listeners into real-time exploration of how we're living through unprecedented change—not as isolated individuals, but as interconnected beings whose nervous systems regulate better together than apart.In the aftermath of the 2024 election and accelerating pressure on our social systems, the limitations of the American experiment have become impossible to ignore. Every day exposes the myth that we can solve collective problems through individual achievement, consumption choices, or personal virtue. We've inherited a story that places the burden of global salvation on our individual shoulders while the architects of collapse profit from the fallout.co-regulation emerges from Holly's direct experience: when consumed by the pressure to fix broken systems personally, she becomes incapacitated. Her nervous system remains in perpetual fight-or-flight. But when she connects with others wrestling with the same questions, something shifts. Our bodies literally calm in each other's presence. Solutions emerge not from heroic individual efforts but from the space between us.This podcast acknowledges that we're at the end of an era defined by extraction, dominance, competition, and separation. We're being forced to move toward each other—to find collective solutions, to rebuild ways of existing harmoniously with the earth and each other. The path forward isn't through competition or meritocracy but through connection, mutual aid, and collective sense-making. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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